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Discussion Starter #1
hello,

i want to take hydraulic pressure to a small baler i bought and in process of fixing. the rams in the baler system are all single acting (only one pipe feeding them)

on a kubota b7100 manual i have it states that there is a hydro pressure outlet at the under the front of seat. (on b7100 models they have a directional valve to it. mine does not.) so my question is.

>> is the pressue supply to this outlet also controlled by the tractors three point hitch lever ? so if yes can i use the tractors 3 point hitch also to operate the rear door of baler... or..... i need to install a separate spool valve which feeds out of this port ??


has anyone got into this point?
joseph
 

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Joseph,

If there is a hydraulic system for the 3PH, then you should be able to tie into it with a separate spool valve for your baler, or possibly a diverter valve so you can operate either the baler or the 3PH with the hitch valve. If you set it up to operate both at the same time, then they will both be slower and you may not want the hitch going up and down when operating the baler.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
hi

thank you for the reply.

to my basic knowledge the baler has an electric powered diverter block to transfer oil to either rear door or to pick up lifting. all rams are single acting and not double acting rams. so i think they work like the principle of the 3point hitch.

my main interest if do i need an extra spool valve or not :( i understand th e point that if i use the 3 point hitch lever the lift arms have an andjustment to push the lever in neutral when highest point is reached so wouldnt work right on the baler..

i am not expert in hydraulics just simply basics. so if i do a a divertor valve at the outlet on the gearbox i would still need some form of return pipe to drive the oil back in the gearbox when the door is closing - pushing the oil back in the pipes. right?

thanks

joseph
 

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Joseph,

From your description, I gather that you need a constant supply of oil for the baler and it will do its own thing. And yes, you do need a return line. A diverter valve will still work since it would be ahead (pump side) of the 3PH valve, effectively taking it out of line. (The 3PH must be up and locked.) The return line will go back to the reservoir, 'T'd into the return side of the 3PH valve. There is hopefully a relief valve on the baler.

If you want options, read on.

If a constant oil flow requirement is correct, I believe that a hydraulic motor control valve is what you need. These valves have detents built into the control handle and can be shifted from neutral to the operating position and will stay there while you do something else. For your purposes, a mechanical block will need to be installed to prevent the accidental shifting of the valve in the reverse direction. There are valves available that only shift in one direction, but I would use one with the reversing feature to keep other options available. With detents built in, it only takes a flick of the fingers to put it back to the neutral position if anything goes wrong at the baler.

A second option is to use a regular control valve, with the same mechanical blocking device, and a mechanical device to hold it in the operating position. This is a less than desirable set-up because quick action to shut down the baler hydraulics will be limited by the nature of the handle latching device.

I don't know your tractor hydraulic system, so I can't tell you where to tie into it to plumb up the auxilliary valve, and you will need a relief valve either built in to the aux. valve or as a separate unit before the aux. valve. The tie in point will be on one side or the other of the 3PH valve, not both sides.

Assuming a built in relief in the aux. valve, the basic circuit should read like this:

Pump ==> Aux. Valve ==> 3PH Valve ==> Reservoir

Or

Pump ==> 3PH Valve ==> Aux. Valve ==> Reservoir

A Power Beyond Kit may be necessary for the first valve in the circuit. Quick disconnects should be used to plug the baler into the aux. valve work hoses, and coloured tie wraps to mark which ones are pairs once you get it working right. It won't work right, if at all, if the oil is flowing the wrong way on the baler.

Motor control valves are usually, not always, open circuit, open centre to allow a motor to spin down on its own rather than to stop abruptly when the oil flow is cut off as with a closed centre valve. In this application, either will work. An open centre valve will not hold a load in the neutral position. I mention this for possible future applications with your tractor. If, for instance, you want to put a cylinder on a back blade to angle it, you must use a closed centre valve.

So, my recommendation is, an open circuit, closed centre valve, with detents and a built in relief, sized for the oil flow of the pump. Check with a local shop if you're not sure of anything that I've mentioned. They may be able to explain it better.

NOTE: Open circuit/closed circuit refers to the oil flow through the basic system.
---------Open centre/closed centre refers to the work ports.
Both circuit and centre are needed to describe the valve.

Hope this helps.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
hi

i have a big headache and very upset so did not go through all the text :(

the balers sistem is

pressure line = electric divertor block = operates 2 rear door rams /or/ 1 ram for pick up lift.

the drive of the rollers is completely mechanical no motors on it. and there is no return pipe for the hydraulic oil. to the tractor. there is only a presure line

i think i will have to go spool block adjusted to take single acting ram to allow flow into the baler.

i will try have a look at some ful size balers found here..

joseph
 

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Sorry Joseph, I'm at a loss for how your system works without a return line to get rid of the oil when the clinders return to their parked position. I would have to see it, and that's a long trip.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
i will try do a drawing. of how i will work it out.

hmmm i would gladly pack up and cross over there ...if i find a shed where to sleep... it s**ks here..

joseph

my main concern is that hydraulic shops have very high prices almost twice as much as places like UK.

...
 

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Discussion Starter #8
here is the drawing.

i think it is best to buy a spool valve and adjust it for 'single' ram operation.
the electric solenoid diverst from pick up to door opening as said previously.

i am also thinking of doing the spool valve with snap on connections so that if i do some other single acting hydraulics on implements i can transfer it to them without having it fixed on the tractor... or i just do it fixed under the seat... (possibly make a tipping trailer or a manure spreader. )

joseph
 

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Joe, I wish I could look at that thing. As a pure hydraulic circuit, your first diagram will not work. You have an electrically actuated valve which leads me to believe that you don't have all the necessary parts drawn in for the complete circuit and an associated electrical diagram to understand how that valve works.

When you bought the baler, did you get a box of parts with it? What I can figure out is that you are missing at least a control panel and an electric dump valve for the tractor end of the circuit. Perhaps other components as well. Without these pieces the second drawing won't work either.

I think an electrical diagram is needed to sort this out properly. I assume the door is triggered to open by a sensor in the baler compartment so that the sequence is automatic. If you want, or need, this automatic function, then you need all the parts that originally came with the baler.

If you can live without the automatics, you can do everything manually with a 2 spool valve set plus associated plumbing and a little electrical work. The electical diverter block will become redundant in a manual setup and should be removed for safe keeping. The electrical work will include wiring any sensors to a light panel on the dash so that you can keep track of when to open the door. If those sensors sent signals to more than one place, it will be interesting.

No matter which way you decide to go, contact the manufacturer and get the electrical diagrams for the baler. The hydraulic diagram will be very helpful as well, as long as it includes the tractor end of the circuit. If you got a manual with it, those diagrams may be included. Then at least you know what parts you are missing.

One more thought. If you use a solenoid actuated 2 spool valve set, you can keep the automatic function as long as you have the control panel. The downside is the price of these valves. Very expensive. It's much cheaper to get the original parts from the previous owner.

Another bloomin' novel. :ROF :sorry1:
 

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hmmm i would gladly pack up and cross over there ...if i find a shed where to sleep... it s**ks here..

...
:Stop:

You need more than a shed around here!!! Winter's coming and the temperatures will be down around -20* C. and can drop to -40* C. occasionally. At least the metre of snow on the ground can act like an insulation..........to a point! :snowing:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
hi,

i contacted the baler company .. they said on phone that it is a simple type circuit - single acting rams. i stripped the hydraulic parts myself so i kept note and labels throughout. they said i still need to add an extra spool valve in the tractor.

my part of novel - i just like to see how things work - and i do not spend ages in front of D.Ch. on programs of that sort :( it is natural to me.

i need a spool valve in tractor to operate either door or pick up just to allow pressure to go to baler and at the same time release and return the pressure. i select the apropriate circuit by means of a red button which diverts flow from door to pick up. when the baler wrapps up i just have to opoerate the spool valve i will add to tractor to open the door since it uses the tractors reserviour. (i think it is set to feed the rams of door and the red button for pick up is just a temporary position the solenoid holds.) i hope this is ok, and that i have understood it :p

i finished servicing the wiring with new connections and wires and tied properly to chassis and tested the electrics, the alarm sounds properly, the solenoid for divertor can be heard flicking over and the magnetic solenoid for binding phase also pulls properly :)

joseph

the machine is on www.CAEBinternational.it i think there is a movie of her in action but mine is in red and oldie. :p

i could get used to temps.. did a 12 day stay in an apartment with a small family in russia -13 and -20 were nice and cool temps to me :p

joe
 

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Joe, that is a neet little baler! I'm glad you got it all figured out. :fing32:

To plumb the spool valve, go back to about the middle of post #4 of this thread. Ignore the stuff about a block. You don't need it or about 80% of what I wrote. My thinking of what you required was wrong. I didn't get it pegged until the fourth paragraph of my last major post. Even then I ignored the diverter valve, thinking it might be tied into something else. :banghead3

A single spool valve with a built in relief is all you need, plus suitable plumbing of course. If you're thinking of using an implement with a 2-way cylinder at a later date, plumb both work ports to the rear of the tractor and instal quick disconnects. Then you can just label the one you need for the baler, but both will be there if you have need in the future.

Well done my friend!! :trink40:
 

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Discussion Starter #14
i was actually thinking of using a double spool valve.. with the intent of using quick release attachment on the pipes which then could turn out useful if i had to build a loader .. .

placing the spool valves under the seat if there is space and when loader is on.. i just connnect the hoses and save knee/and/climbing space by keeping the levers under the seat... but dont know yet what to go through..

the guy who does the hydrolic works - and fittings and pipes told me he will use dual acting spool valve but bypass some ports. i will see if it is possible to have them blanked with quick release and labeled as u said.

well it is close to testing.but i guess i have lots more in store - timing for the wrapping and cutting process :banghead3

ciao for now :thanku:


joe
 

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Hi Joe.

A 2 spool valve is a good idea if you're thinking of buying a loader. They usually come with the valves on them and an extra set of valves can be used for many other things. If you're going to build a loader, make sure to get a set of valves with a float position on one spool.

My MF1655 has a total of 6 valves, and I use 5 of them for various jobs. The original valves are on the right fender, one for the 3PH lift and one for the midddle lift for lawnmower/snowblower. My FEL has another pair and I added a third pair at the rear, on the loader circuit, for a log splitter and a hydraulic dump trailer, if I ever get a chance to build one. The last set is still within reach of the seat, but behind the seat on the left and has quick disconnects on the hoses.

A good habit to get into is to cycle all valves after shutting off the engine to relieve any high pressure left in any of the lines. That reduces stress on the hoses if the machine is parked for extended periods.

Good luck with the rest of your project.

You're welcome. Ciao!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
hi... !!!!


i am so happy today.. i tried the baler even if not 100% properly operational

still missing body pannels and side rakes and timing/net cutting needs adjusting.

but managed through the frist bale and it is fantastic the 14-16 hp kubota b7001 operated it at slightly above idle, parked and gently fed!! i only over did it ones initially almost stalling the thing because i pushed in too much straw(wheat straw whole)

but happy also the hydraulics are ok. they only need a setting on the spool valve to lower the relief pressure to avoid overloading the pump and fully open state.

loader is under work too but only the towers done. :) will use only one spool valve for now and make a manually opening bucket at top like most JCB diggers so infuture might put in hydraulics to act as a jaw and grab :)

so excited i will try post a video of the baler on other part of forum and diagram of hydraulics too but that is basic knowledge for you .

joseph
 

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:congrats::congrats:

Well done Joseph!!

:bannana::bananapow:woohoo1:

Now comes the fun part of learning how it likes to work and reaping the harvest of all of your hard work.

The very best of luck with your future projects. :trink40:
 
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