My Tractor Forum banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
204 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
When did Case/Ingersoll switch over to the bigger rear fenders that go all the way down to the foot rest? Was this done on both the 200 and 400 series tractors? mt 86 and 87 have both styles so I would assume 87 was the first year but I just want confirmation from someone who knows for sure
 

·
Ingersoll Dealer
Joined
·
2,552 Posts
I recall we have settled this previously as the 400's switched in mid 1985.

I've not heard a changeover date on the 200's ... but indeed as early as some 1987's had full length fenders ... have one in the shop now.

Brian
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,500 Posts
One of the things I've learned about these tractors is this. The whole notion of "year of tractor" is more fantasy than fact. When you look at my collection of original sales brochures, you will rarely find mention of "year". Even the publishing date on the back page is often somewhat misleading because these brochures were usually printed some months in advance of the next year. In addition, you have the issue of "model year" vs "calendar year". The assembly stopped assembling a particular "build design" on a certain date and began constructing the newest "build design".

Case and Ingersoll reserved the right to change the design of these tractors whenever it suited them to do so without any obligation to retroactively update machines sold previously. I've seen this take place many, many times in the past. As an example, the 155/195 models for 1968 came with the hydraulic brake system that was used on the 150/190 models of 1966 and the 155/195 models of 1967 but at a certain serial number break in the 1968 production run, the hydraulic brake was dropped in favor of a completely different trans-axle that had mechanical dual disc brakes.

Another example is the 1972 models. This is the year that the 446 first appeared and the tractors that came off the assembly initially were using the same PTO clutch actuating system used by the 442 and 444 models made for the 1971 run. After about about 500 units went down the line, a whole new frame was introduced and the more familiar side-mounted PTO engagement lever was installed.

The point is this. Case and Ingersoll's are defined by their SERIAL NUMBERS more so than their so-called "year". It is possible that early 87's still had the earlier fenders on them but that the later ones went to the longer fender that came down to the foot rest. I certainly agree with Paul that the change came in, some time in the latter part of 86 to early 87. Whether anyone can say to an absolute certainty that ALL 1987 and 1988 Ingersoll's came with that fender style is risky.

I've had my butt burnt too many times in the past to make definitive statements about the "year" of a tractor prior to some serious research of parts manuals. I'm getting better at it but I'm still not perfect. :fing20::fing32:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,500 Posts
I recall we have settled this previously as the 400's switched in mid 1985.

I've not heard a changeover date on the 200's ... but indeed as early as some 1987's had full length fenders ... have one in the shop now.

Brian
Brian knows that I'm not challenging him on a personal level here because we are friends.

The following is offered to try and help the OP and others understand how hard it is to make concrete statements all the time about these tractors.


I have an original Ingersoll Planning Guide to CASE Lawn & Garden Tractors with a photo of John Ingersoll standing beside a shiny, new 448. The print date on the back is Copyright 1984 and the catalog number is Form #IPG984.

To me, that indicates "Ingersoll Planning Guide - 9th month of 1984 and it is intended for use by dealers to show customers the tractors being built for 1985. The tractors shown in this brochure do not have the fenders that reach the foot rests.

The next brochure I have is the Ingersoll Yard & Garden Tractors Planning Guide. All references to CASE are now gone and the tractors (200 and 400) all have the extended fenders that reach the footrests. This brochure has a copyright date of 1986 and a Form #IPG786100M.

I'm presuming that this translates to a printing date of July 1986, well in advance of the 1987 calendar year but just because Ingersoll got a head-start on this design doesn't mean that the production line saw those fenders in July of 86. There are so many factors that come into play here, it isn't even funny. It just isn't as cut and dried as many of you would like to think it is.

I have yet to come across a brochure that fits in-between the two above. What that tells me is that Ingersoll used the same brochure for two years running. And if I'm right, then the fenders didn't change for 1985 or 1986.. at least until July of 86, anyway.
 

·
HeadCase For My Ingersoll
Joined
·
1,359 Posts
I have a 1987 anniversary 444 with intermediate length fenders and a 1987 anniversary 448 with full length fenders. Researching the date code on the 444 says it's a late '86 model and I assume they decaled it and sold it as an '87. The 448's number falls in the middle of the build year for 1987.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
204 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for the info guys. Im just trying to gather as much info about these as I can just in case I come across a diamond in the rough somewhere. I want to know as much as I can before I drop the hammer and fork over the pennies.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
204 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Ya I know. most of the 400 series tractors sel for $800 and up if they are in decent working shape. Im trying to work out a deal with town I live in to sell me their 444 they dont use anymore. It sits in the garage and collects dust.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,044 Posts
LOL, you might get a hernia if you tried to pay for one in pennies...
Off topic here but about 15 years ago a high school age girl custom ordered a full 7 piece drum set from a local music store and paid for the entire thing in NICKLES!!!

They had her picture up on the wall with several banker bags of coins next to her and her new drums, I thought that was ultra cool...

I don't know what the significance was other than they were silver sparkle drums, but I don't think they had nickle plated hardware.

Some might say "weird", but I say "CLEVER"
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,500 Posts
If the guy who owned the music store was on the ball, he would have called the local newspapers and invited them to come to his store to witness this event. The free publicity would have far exceeded the aggravation of having to take those bags of nickels to the bank.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,044 Posts
He might have, but I didn't see anything about it, I DO know that the total was somewhere around $2000 That's a LOT of nickles.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,634 Posts
My .03 Just as there are `65 Corvettes with leftover drum brakes, there are frequent discrepancies with equipment in regard to model years. Hey, you have orders to fill (build) and you`re out of updated widget B you will build it with widget A if it`s in inventory. This is especially true with components that are "bought out" from a supplier. Not saying it applies to the "Great Fender Debate", but, it does happen. Frequent in vintage H-D motorcycles. JMO
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top