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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm working on a design for a pull-type box scraper for my X734 and would like to get some design input for how to attaching the wheel spindles to the 4"x4" square tubing as shown in the picture below. Note: the unit will weight around 500 lbs. Any suggestions would be welcome.

  1. The spindles cannot extend any further into the tubing as this would cause wheel interference.
  2. The weld area of the spindle is 1.25" diameter.
  3. The 4" square tubing is 1/4" wall.

Tire Wheel Automotive tire Font Auto part


Thanks,
Nathan
 

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I'd second what jmb6420 said. Basic and strong.
 

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I would make it a bit stronger by drilling through both sides of the square tubing, and then run the round tubing through both sides and extending out as far as possible for the spindle to go into. And you'd want that round tubing to be fairly thick and the i.d. to be pretty close to the o.d. of the spindle as well as you don't want it to bend at all.
 

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I would make it a bit stronger by drilling through both sides of the square tubing, and then run the round tubing through both sides and extending out as far as possible for the spindle to go into. And you'd want that round tubing to be fairly thick and the i.d. to be pretty close to the o.d. of the spindle as well as you don't want it to bend at all.
Better idea.
 

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I like the idea of a keeper pin so the axle can be removed, but that assumes that you can insert the pin far enough into the tube to be stable (your pic makes it look like you are limited on the spindle length?). If not, you might need to weld it into the tube.

Alternatively, you could weld the axle into a thick plate that would slide up into the square stock. Then have two bolts thru the square stock to bolt it in place. Depending how long you make the plate, you could have multiple bolt holes for varying lengths.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
I would make it a bit stronger by drilling through both sides of the square tubing, and then run the round tubing through both sides and extending out as far as possible for the spindle to go into. And you'd want that round tubing to be fairly thick and the i.d. to be pretty close to the o.d. of the spindle as well as you don't want it to bend at all.
That's what I was thinking, too. Here's what I've got...
Arm Human body Font Wood Rectangle

You have the design well underway, but for information's sake this is a great video.

Adam
I agree. He was my inspiration for this build. He's done a good job with a simple design that's, in my opinion, better suited for light work. I actually started out planning to use his design. I modeled it but, for various reasons, decided not to go with this/his design...
Wheel Tire Product Vehicle Automotive tire

Later, I happened upon the Frontier LL1160 box scraper and really liked the design...

Tire Wheel Automotive tire Toy Tread


The downside to the frontier design is that it requires more material of different shapes and sizes, which would drive up cost.

I also found the Land Pride BB45 Series and liked the simpler design for the wheel frame and hydraulic cylinder mounting...

Tire Wheel Automotive tire Wood Line


So, I borrowed the best of both...

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Tire Wheel Product Vehicle Font


I like the idea of a keeper pin so the axle can be removed, but that assumes that you can insert the pin far enough into the tube to be stable (your pic makes it look like you are limited on the spindle length?). If not, you might need to weld it into the tube.

Alternatively, you could weld the axle into a thick plate that would slide up into the square stock. Then have two bolts thru the square stock to bolt it in place. Depending how long you make the plate, you could have multiple bolt holes for varying lengths.
Yes, I am limited on the length of the spindle, unfortunately. I've done quite a lot of searching and cannot find a spindle with a longer weld area. I'm using the following spindle from Northern Tool. https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200442385_200442385

Thanks,
Nathan
 

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Very cool design! In addition to what @CantKeepUp suggested, what about welding an extension to the non-wheel end of the spindle? That could give you more length, so that it could extend through the square tube, and stick out the back side, providing perhaps an easier means of installing a pin through it, to retain the spindle.

Even if you couldn't precisely match the diameter, you could use a slightly-smaller diameter bolt, for the extension.
 

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Don’t underestimate the load on the tongue and cross-member. Having a solid tube across the top of the tongue puts all the force on the tongue tube, rather than on the welds.
  • Frontier also has adjustable scarifiers through the cross-member tube. Were you going to add them? The Frontier also appears to have a bolt in cutting edge. I personally like the lift mechanism on the Frontier better and it appears to be a stand alone electric driven hydraulic pump which would be necessary if you don’t have rear hydraulic connections. Then again it has the two hydraulic lines, so I’m not sure what else the motor looking thing might be on the tongue.
  • LandPride has struts from the cross-member tube to the main vertical wall which will help keep the vertical wall from bending under load. You should keep the hose guide/support too.
 
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It looks like an interesting project. I know I thought about it before when I saw the video. I ended up deciding against it for several reasons.

I have to ask the question. Why do you need/want a pull behind box scraper when you have a tractor that is capable of having a 3PH?

What are you planning on doing with it?
I suspect, with the rear wheels it will be easier to use than a regular box scraper, but I don't think it will be as good as a real grading scraper.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Very cool design! In addition to what @CantKeepUp suggested, what about welding an extension to the non-wheel end of the spindle? That could give you more length, so that it could extend through the square tube, and stick out the back side, providing perhaps an easier means of installing a pin through it, to retain the spindle.

Even if you couldn't precisely match the diameter, you could use a slightly-smaller diameter bolt, for the extension.
That would be a good option too. Thanks for the input.

Don’t underestimate the load on the tongue and cross-member. Having a solid tube across the top of the tongue puts all the force on the tongue tube, rather than on the welds.
  • Frontier also has adjustable scarifiers through the cross-member tube. Were you going to add them? The Frontier also appears to have a bolt in cutting edge. I personally like the lift mechanism on the Frontier better and it appears to be a stand alone electric driven hydraulic pump which would be necessary if you don’t have rear hydraulic connections. Then again it has the two hydraulic lines, so I’m not sure what else the motor looking thing might be on the tongue.
  • LandPride has struts from the cross-member tube to the main vertical wall which will help keep the vertical wall from bending under load. You should keep the hose guide/support too.
I realized my previous post where I showed a model of an old design might have caused some confusion. I've updated the previous post to clarify what my latest/new design is. I agree, the tongue and cross member configuration of the old design is better suited for a light duty scraper. See toward the end of my previous post where I show my current design. I think it will answer many of your questions. I'll have a bolt on cutting edge. Agree, I'll have some sort of hose guide/support. Thanks for the input.
It looks like an interesting project. I know I thought about it before when I saw the video. I ended up deciding against it for several reasons.

I have to ask the question. Why do you need/want a pull behind box scraper when you have a tractor that is capable of having a 3PH?

What are you planning on doing with it?
I suspect, with the rear wheels it will be easier to use than a regular box scraper, but I don't think it will be as good as a real grading scraper.
Good questions. Here are some of the reasons I chose to go with a pull-type instead of 3PH type.
  1. My X734 spends 90% of it's time mowing my lawn. The remainder is spent towing lawn equipment (cart, aerator, spreader, sweeper, etc.) and my trailer. I have no intentions of using it for anything other than mowin' and towin'.
  2. I built a heavy duty receiver hitch (see this thread) for towing my trailer and this hitch prohibits the installation of a 3PH. But, the receiver hitch will be perfect for towing this pull-type box scraper.
  3. I'd rarely use the 3PH.
  4. Cost of 3PH.
  5. I can add additional hydraulic cylinder to be able to tilt the scraper (currently undecided on whether I want to incorporate into my design).
  6. The hydraulic cylinder on the pull-type can be replaced with a turn-buckle and easily towed by truck or utv. Or, add electric over hydraulic to your truck and run it as is.
  7. Can be towed by my father's Kubota (G5200).
  8. Will be using it for finish grading and moving loose materials but want to be able to use it with a larger tractor when I get a larger property.
  9. X7 series 3PH is best suited for a 4 foot box blade and my design is for a 5 foot scraper. (Wider seems better for finish grading)
  10. In theory, this pull-type scraper should do a better job of finish grading than a 3PH scraper.
  11. I didn't think the list was going to be this long, haha.
 

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Will be interesting to see how it turns out. I expect it will be somewhat easier to use than the 3PH version. But, unless you already have very flat areas, it will still be hard to use.
 

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Couple of thoughts.
👍 I like the retraction of the cylinder to lower. Probably will sit that way most of its life.

? Why not have the tongue pass through the back plate and attach piston inside the end if it, maybe cut out the bottom and use a pin straight through. May need tube spacers on each side.

? How thick are the end panels? The ones on the Frontier look like at least 1/4”, maybe 3/8”. Too thin and they will bend at the front lower corners during a turn. The Land Pride looks to have an flange on to

👍 I like the piece of angle to attach the cutting plate. It will certainly make it stronger.

? I’m not sure what the plate under the tongue Is intended to do. If to locate the tongue and support it you could add a plate same size as your cross tube laying at a 45 on top the tube, welded in. Most equipment has a 45* bar of some kind from the tongue to the outer end of the cross tube.

🤔 Back housing is only bent once on the Frontier, but looks like it could be multiple bends on the Land Pride. The least shallow angle part, the least material will hang on to it.

👍 I like your adjustable hitch.
 

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On the farm they use a land leveler very similar to what you have designed with one exception, the length of the tongue is much greater. That allows more vertical change of the tractor with smaller amount of box movement. Maybe consider making an extendable tongue for the larger open spaces.
 

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On the farm they use a land leveler very similar to what you have designed with one exception, the length of the tongue is much greater. That allows more vertical change of the tractor with smaller amount of box movement. Maybe consider making an extendable tongue for the larger open spaces.
Extendable tongue could easily be incorporated by mechanical means. The length form the tractor is what makes most box scraper such a bear to operate. The same as using a front mounted blade.
The two changes I would make to the pull type would be.
1. Move the lift wheels as close to the blade as possible.
2. Move the bottom lift cylinder location back.

Moving the wheels forward would put more pressure on the blade and not on the tongue. Moving the cylinder back on the bottom would give better control of the blade depth but would also take more cylinder movement to do the same amount of work.

But guess it all depends upon what you want to use it for. Just filling holes or fine grading.
 
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