My Tractor Forum banner

21 - 40 of 75 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,357 Posts
You mention water and fuel. How does that tell you if there is any ethanol in the fuel?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
79 Posts
Fill with water to the line, then fill the tube to the top with gasoline.
Cover the tube, agitate it, and let it stand.
The ethanol and water will mix and separate out together.
See where the division is, that's the amount of ethanol.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,357 Posts
OK, I got it. I thought that it would somehow just tell you if there was ethanol in the fuel. You have to add water yourself to see if any gets absorbed into the fuel, and if so, it has ethanol in it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
79 Posts
OK, I got it. I thought that it would somehow just tell you if there was ethanol in the fuel. You have to add water yourself to see if any gets absorbed into the fuel, and if so, it has ethanol in it.
The tube has graduation marks on it and where the water & fuel meet, the graduation marks will tell you how much (if any) ethanol is present. :tango_face_smile:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,371 Posts
Only if the carb was designed before they started adding ethanol to gasoline. Once the gasoline companies started adding ethanol to the fuel the vehicle and equipment manufacturers changed the materials in the fuel systems they designed so that they would be compatible with gasoline with 10% ethanol in it.
Being made more recently "compatible" with ethanol doesn't solve the problem or do much to improve the situation. These simply aren't old enough to start showing symptoms.
I have seen many that are already. Have a MTD chinese snowblower with Huayi Carb here now that is a newer ethanol friendly one that had to have a new needle and or seat or carb for failure to shut off and I had one other earlier this month. It is the fuel, not the materials.

The old 2 cycle stuff used to go 8-10+ years before the lines would be brittle and snap off. Now they do it in 2-3.
Tygon is better, but no savior. I mean REAL Tygon too. If it is not printed Tygon every 8-10 inches IT IS NOT Tygon.
Even Tygon only gives you about double or a little over with ethanol fuel.
You can get the blue 100% nitro methan stuff but last I saw was 4.95 a foot and not stocked anywhere locally. It is probably much better.


Stabilizer...StaBil for me...is your friend. 8.88 for qt at Walmart (13.99 at parts stores! GO on go out of business and let Amazon with you greedy tards) Use at 1 oz for each gallon despite what the label says and your rubbers will feel much more loved.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
803 Posts
This tester is a simple plastic test tube with etched marks to indicate fuel & water level. I bought mine for 10 bucks at our community airport. I guess pilots use them? This is the one I have but there are several out there. I chose this one because it was a short drive away. The yellow parts are pilot specific. Hope this helps? :tango_face_smile:
Yeah, these fuel testers are for checking a fuel sample directly from the bottom of the fuel tank on the aircraft to look for water and sediment.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
573 Posts
Surprisingly my little 2014 Chevy Spark is one of the few cars that can benefit from higher octane fuel. It gets better gas mileage and has noticeably more power with high test gasoline. It is a manual 5 speed and is quite zippy and fun to drive. It only can adjust up to 92 octane though. It is a vvt high compression engine (10.5:1). So it can use and prefers to use the higher octane. But because it is vvt it is able to arrest spark for lower octane and use 87 fine. That is how it got the name Chevy SPARK.

I always seem to have a car that could use high octane gas and my old mowers and tractor love it too.

The amount of gasoline left in a 10 foot hose from the previous customer is .10 to .20 gallons (12-24 ounces). Might make a difference in a motorcycle but not a car. Not even my little Spark that only has an 8 gallon gas tank. I always fill the car first and then the cans.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,357 Posts
Being made more recently "compatible" with ethanol doesn't solve the problem or do much to improve the situation. These simply aren't old enough to start showing symptoms.
I have seen many that are already. Have a MTD chinese snowblower with Huayi Carb here now that is a newer ethanol friendly one that had to have a new needle and or seat or carb for failure to shut off and I had one other earlier this month. It is the fuel, not the materials.

The old 2 cycle stuff used to go 8-10+ years before the lines would be brittle and snap off. Now they do it in 2-3.
Tygon is better, but no savior. I mean REAL Tygon too. If it is not printed Tygon every 8-10 inches IT IS NOT Tygon.
Even Tygon only gives you about double or a little over with ethanol fuel.
You can get the blue 100% nitro methan stuff but last I saw was 4.95 a foot and not stocked anywhere locally. It is probably much better.
Then why do cars not have the same problems? Cars have been running the same 10% ethanol for thousands of more hours/cycles than these small engines and their fuel lines are not getting brittle and cracking. Your example of the MTD snow blower is of a Chinese made piece of junk. So that's an example of "you get what you pay for". My John Deere X500 is over 10 years old now and has never had a single problem with its fuel system and I've always run "Regular" gasoline, which around here means 87 octane with 10% ethanol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
The engines may be designed to run ethanol fuel, but ethanol fuel absorbs moisture and can separate. Most cars or truck are filling their tanks every week or so, and there generally isn't enough time to separate. But most people fill a can to run their lawn equipment, and it can takes weeks or even months to use up. I run ONLY ethanol free gas in all my lawn equipment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
129 Posts
Reason you should use a higher octane fuel is because "if" the Ethanol separates out (and it will eventually) the higher octane will lower the cylinder head temperature due to the higher octane and hopefully prevent the piston and valves from melting. (Keeps the cylinder head temperature lower when the pure alcohol (Ethanol) gets drawn in and burns.)

It's a critical issue with the smaller engines such as a weed trimmers and blowers, but good practice for all small engines.

Local shop has several examples of engines that melted after running gas where the Ethanol separated out. One gulp of pure alcohol and those small engines get super hot instantly.

Like others wrote, I start out with a fuel stabilizer (I use Sea Foam in my 2-gallon tank and Sea foam and a small amount of Sta-Bal in my 1-gallon tank) already in the empty gas tank before I leave home, then add a small amount of gas at the pump. Perhaps a 1/2 gal or less. Put the top on and slosh it around to get it mixed. Then continue to fill it to full.

Reason I use both products in the 1-gallon tank is, it usually sets for six months before I need to refill it again and I dont want any possibility of the ethanol separating.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,111 Posts
Am I the only person that finds it entertaining that any time there is a fuel thread in this forum, the discussion almost instantly turns to ethanol regardless of the original posters question? You see a thread mentioning gasoline, and instantly know it's turned into an ethanol debate. Dunno...

For the record, I run E0 because it's readily available where I live and I do store gasoline for extended periods. However I've been known to switch to E10 during the summer when I go through gas quicker.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
587 Posts
Am I the only person that finds it entertaining that any time there is a fuel thread in this forum, the discussion almost instantly turns to ethanol regardless of the original posters question? You see a thread mentioning gasoline, and instantly know it's turned into an ethanol debate. Dunno...

For the record, I run E0 because it's readily available where I live and I do store gasoline for extended periods. However I've been known to switch to E10 during the summer when I go through gas quicker.
Must be time for another ethanol hater meeting.

I've been running E10 gas for 15 to 16 years with no fuel related problems. The components that makes your fuel will separate with or without ethanol in the fuel. 2 Cycle fuel is a good example. Leave your 2 cycle gas sit for 3-4 weeks and pour some out. You will get a few straight gas before you get oil gas mixture your 2 cycle engine needs. How do you fix that issue? Go to gas station and get a fresh gas oil mixture???? Shake the fuel container???? The way I solve this problem is shake my 2 cycle fuel container. I even shake my 2 cycle machine before I start it. Ethanol is the heaviest fuel component in your gas. It will go to the bottom of your fuel system or storage container. I shut the fuel off in all my small engines that have a fuel shut off and let them run dry. I will shake my tractor some to help mix the fuel.

Fuel storage is area that small engine owners are lax on. All small engine manufactures say to not to use gas that is over days old. They all say to use a fuel stabilizer in your fuel. FYI-seafoam is not a fuel stabilizer.....it is a fuel cleaner/additive. Fuel system cleaning additives have a tendency to separate and turn acidic, causing damage to fuel system components.

How you store your fuel is important too. I look for ways to reduce the moisture in my fuel. My shop floor where I store my fuel is cold and damp. The dampness is a way to attract water. All my fuel container(s) has a piece of wood between the floor and fuel container.

My oldest garden tractor is an 1964 IH Cub Cadet 100. My newest garden tractor-lawn mower is an 1996 Simplicity Landlord. It has 1400 hours on it. The engine has never been work on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
587 Posts
I need to add a few things. My changes-additions are in bold print

Must be time for another ethanol hater meeting.

I've been running E10 gas for 15 to 16 years with no fuel related problems. The components that makes your fuel will separate with or without ethanol in the fuel. 2 Cycle fuel is a good example. Leave your 2 cycle gas sit for 3-4 weeks and pour some out. You will get a few straight gas before you get oil gas mixture your 2 cycle engine needs. How do you fix that issue? Go to gas station and get a fresh gas oil mixture???? Shake the fuel container???? The way I solve this problem is shake my 2 cycle fuel container. I even shake my 2 cycle machine before I start it. Ethanol is the heaviest fuel component in your gas. It will go to the bottom of your fuel system or storage container. I shut the fuel off in all my small engines that have a fuel shut off and let them run dry. I will shake my tractor some to help mix the fuel. I will shake my any fuel container I'm using.

Fuel storage is area that small engine owners are lax on. All small engine manufactures say to not to use gas that is over 30 days old. Any gas that is over 30 days old is added to my pickup truck. They all say to use a fuel stabilizer in your fuel. FYI-seafoam is not a fuel stabilizer.....it is a fuel cleaner/additive. Fuel system cleaning additives have a tendency to separate and turn acidic, causing damage to fuel system components.

How you store your fuel is important too. I look for ways to reduce the moisture in my fuel. My shop floor where I store my fuel is cold and damp. The dampness is a way to attract water. All my fuel container(s) has a piece of wood between the floor and fuel container.

My oldest garden tractor is an 1964 IH Cub Cadet 100. My newest garden tractor-lawn mower is an 1996 Simplicity Landlord. It has 1400 hours on it. The engine has never been work on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,371 Posts
I need to add a few things. My changes-additions are in bold print

Must be time for another ethanol hater meeting.

I've been running E10 gas for 15 to 16 years with no fuel related problems. The components that makes your fuel will separate with or without ethanol in the fuel. 2 Cycle fuel is a good example. Leave your 2 cycle gas sit for 3-4 weeks and pour some out. You will get a few straight gas before you get oil gas mixture your 2 cycle engine needs. How do you fix that issue? Go to gas station and get a fresh gas oil mixture???? Shake the fuel container???? The way I solve this problem is shake my 2 cycle fuel container. I even shake my 2 cycle machine before I start it. Ethanol is the heaviest fuel component in your gas. It will go to the bottom of your fuel system or storage container. I shut the fuel off in all my small engines that have a fuel shut off and let them run dry. I will shake my tractor some to help mix the fuel. I will shake my any fuel container I'm using.

Fuel storage is area that small engine owners are lax on. All small engine manufactures say to not to use gas that is over 30 days old. Any gas that is over 30 days old is added to my pickup truck. They all say to use a fuel stabilizer in your fuel. FYI-seafoam is not a fuel stabilizer.....it is a fuel cleaner/additive. Fuel system cleaning additives have a tendency to separate and turn acidic, causing damage to fuel system components.

How you store your fuel is important too. I look for ways to reduce the moisture in my fuel. My shop floor where I store my fuel is cold and damp. The dampness is a way to attract water. All my fuel container(s) has a piece of wood between the floor and fuel container.

My oldest garden tractor is an 1964 IH Cub Cadet 100. My newest garden tractor-lawn mower is an 1996 Simplicity Landlord. It has 1400 hours on it. The engine has never been work on.
Many people consider seafoam enough for a stabilizer since it says "stabilizes fuel" on bottle. It is poor at it at best.
Use a dedicated stabilizer only product like stabil and use generously like 1 oz per gallon NOT 1 for every 2.5 like it currently states.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
129 Posts
My oldest garden tractor is an 1964 IH Cub Cadet 100. My newest garden tractor-lawn mower is an 1996 Simplicity Landlord. It has 1400 hours on it. The engine has never been work on.
Agree, I "swirl " my gas can before dispensing as well. Agree with everything you wrote.

Only point that should be brought up is your IH and Simplicity are older models. Carbs have much larger jets. After the CARB standards came out, the jets and passages are smaller, more prone to clogging from gumming up. **** I remember leaving gas in an old lawnmower for nearly a year and it still started. Do that with a modern engine and Ethanol gas ...... heh.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
587 Posts
Many people consider seafoam enough for a stabilizer since it says "stabilizes fuel" on bottle. It is poor at it at best.
Use a dedicated stabilizer only product like stabil and use generously like 1 oz per gallon NOT 1 for every 2.5 like it currently states.
seafoam also claims to be a cleaner too. I'm concern that the "cleaning additives in seafoam" will turn acidic, causing damage to fuel system components.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,365 Posts
seafoam also claims to be a cleaner too. I'm concern that the "cleaning additives in seafoam" will turn acidic, causing damage to fuel system components.
Do you have any reference that states the cleaners in Seafoam will turn acidic over time?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
587 Posts
Do you have any reference that states the cleaners in Seafoam will turn acidic over time?
This is from Kohler FAQs:
by Kohler https://kohlerpower.com/en/engines/faqs (question #7)

Can I use additives in my engine?
We do not recommend using additives or cleaners in the oil or fuel system. Air-cooled engines operate at higher temperatures than liquid-cooled automotive engines, and additives developed for automotive use may not perform properly at higher temperatures.
In addition, oil additives can prematurely break down, altering the properties of the oil and leading to extensive internal damage or failure. Fuel system cleaning additives have a tendency to separate and turn acidic, causing damage to fuel system components.


We do, however, recommend a fuel stabilizer during periods of non-use (one month or more) to retard fuel deterioration.
Plow days for me are good place to try different things with fuel being one of them. I took 2 blends (5 gallon containers) to a plow day. One was gas straight from the pump and the other was gas with the recommended amount of sea foam in it. Both containers were filled at the same time.

I tried the sea foam mix first in 2 different IH Cub Cadets (100 & 149). Both were pulling a 10 inch Brinly plow. The 100 ran out of power and died. The 149 was way down on power. Both tractors had little to no gas in the tank before I filled the tractors. I drain the fuel and fill IH Cub Cadets straight gas from the pump fuel container. Both tractors running like they should by time I made it back to the field we were plowing. The only difference was the seafoam in the fuel tank.

I tried seafoam at a different plow day and had the same results.

Biggest problem I've see deals with poor fuel storage habits....or the lack there of.
 
21 - 40 of 75 Posts
Top