My Tractor Forum banner
  • Are you passionate about Tractors? Would you like to write about topics that interest you and get paid for it? Read all about it here!
1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
151 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was just wondring how many have converted there points ignition over to eletronic,and indexing the spark plugs.I been thinking of converting my Onan over.Kirk Engines,Inc sells the point savers and coils.Might just be a cheap way to get a little more ponys out of the Onan.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,841 Posts
I wouldn't touch the Onan points and condenser system for all the tea in China. It is so reliable and so trouble free that nothing would be gained by putting a electronic ignition on an Onan CCKA or B series engine. I think I changed the points and condenser on my 818T when I got it over 15 years ago. I have not touched it since.

The only failure I ever had on my CCKA engines was the 6 volt coil. The epoxy that was used to encapsulate the coil is now starting to break down due to age. As a result the spark will arc from a crack in the case to ground.

If you have the old style coil and want to upgrade something, get a new style Onan coil. I think they have a higher output voltage than the old one. Don't forget to take the voltage dropping resistor out of circuit. The new coil is a 12 volt coil. I think I paid about $60 for a new Onan coil.
 

·
Senior MTF Poster
Joined
·
13,475 Posts
"we put transisterized ignition on my neighbors 5600 (8hp kohler) and it made a world of difference on it."

?? My experience has been that there is no improvement in performance and engines equipped with points and cond. in good shape start easier, fewer rpm required to fire.

Walt Conner
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,841 Posts
I agree with Walt. A properly functioning points and condenser will make no difference when converted to electronic. If the wiring is bad, the condenser old or the points corroded then an improvement will be experienced when converted to electronic.

Now if a different coil was used, then the coil change will likely show an improvement over the stock coil but the electronics had nothing to do with the improvement.

How the path to ground on the primary side of the coil is switched on and off makes no difference in spark quality. It is the coil itself that makes the difference.

Here is some food for thought. Inside the electronic ignition are usually some electrolytic capacitors. That is exactly what a condenser is. So what happens when the capacitors fail? Convert back for $30 or replace a $100 (future price) ignition module?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,841 Posts
Anybody got part #'s/link for the Kohler conversion??

I would love to look at it!!
.

I did a Google search for "Kirk Engine" and found it.
 

·
Gravely Model L Guy
Joined
·
464 Posts
I converted my K301 that is on my Commercial 12 from Electronic to points ignition and I think it runs better on points
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,879 Posts
I also converted my K301 to points. Like Richard said, who wants to buy a $100 dollar coil?
 

·
Just Have a Little Faith!
Joined
·
9,271 Posts
If you check on Brian Miller's site, he states that the stock Kohler coil puts out more than enough voltage to burn properly.

The stock Kohler points aren't going to float at max. recommended RPM, so the only other problem that points and condenser might cause would be if the owner had a problem with setting the timing. If proper technique is used in setting it, or better yet, a timing light, then stick with points.

The answer I have gotten is that indexing the plugs gives only a slight increase in HP, which would only interest a racer. I believe you might find more improvement with trying different brands of plugs.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,841 Posts
Ignition systems are somewhat of a mystery to some people. Once certain principles are understood, then one can more closely evaluate the claims made by manufacturers.

I remember all the gizmos and gadgets that were advertised in the JC Whitney catalog. If all the claims were true for fuel regulators, spark plugs, water injectors, coils, CDI, fuel line magnets, etc. then it would be easy to get 150 miles to the gallon from a 454 engine and get a 150% increase in horsepower too.
 

·
Gravely bug bit.
Joined
·
8,737 Posts
Ignition systems are somewhat of a mystery to some people. Once certain principles are understood, then one can more closely evaluate the claims made by manufacturers.

I remember all the gizmos and gadgets that were advertised in the JC Whitney catalog. If all the claims were true for fuel regulators, spark plugs, water injectors, coils, CDI, fuel line magnets, etc. then it would be easy to get 150 miles to the gallon from a 454 engine and get a 150% increase in horsepower too.
I'd be happy to get 30 MPG from the 8.1L. :D

The place where electronic ignition would help is down here. Points fail here due to moisture.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,939 Posts
I'd be happy to get 30 MPG from the 8.1L. :D

The place where electronic ignition would help is down here. Points fail here due to moisture.
From my work on very low current flow contactors', the Kirk ignition would perform poorly in the Florida humidity.

Since the points are still used, the points appear to operate at very low current when converted to the electronic system.

At very low current the points will oxidize and fail to conduct current.

We prototyped 2 methods to resolve this problem on ship mounted (high humidity) contactors.
1) the contacts were gold plated.
2) the contacts were redesigned to "rub" at contact to break the oxide.

Method #2 was going to be real expensive to tool so we went with method #1.

Anybody know where I can get some gold plated Kohler point sets!!!??? :drunkie:
 

·
Old Iron Connoisseur
Joined
·
2,783 Posts
From my work on very low current flow contactors', the Kirk ignition would perform poorly in the Florida humidity.

Since the points are still used, the points appear to operate at very low current when converted to the electronic system.

At very low current the points will oxidize and fail to conduct current.

We prototyped 2 methods to resolve this problem on ship mounted (high humidity) contactors.
1) the contacts were gold plated.
2) the contacts were redesigned to "rub" at contact to break the oxide.

Method #2 was going to be real expensive to tool so we went with method #1.

Anybody know where I can get some gold plated Kohler point sets!!!??? :drunkie:
I'll sell you some points for $250! Then you would swear they were gold plated! :trink39:

Guaranteed not to rust, bust, or gather dust until they get out of the shipping package!
 

·
Old Iron Connoisseur
Joined
·
2,783 Posts
Woot!! :drunkie: I love infomercials!!

You would do great!! :fing32:
It's our standard warranty around the office (site work contractor/asphalt plant) as we seem to destroy everything including anvils with rubber mallets. We have some special people around here.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,841 Posts
I recently heard about a tail light warranty. It is good for as long as the purchaser can see the seller's taillights.
 

·
Senior MTF Poster
Joined
·
13,475 Posts
I tell them, "warrantied all the way, all the way to the end of the gravel on my driveway."

When they look stunned, I say, "What kind of warranty would you give me if I were to buy your truck?" They usually grin and say no more.

Walt Conner
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Top