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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm hoping someone can help as I am clueless.

I have a 30 year old Simplicity 4208. Recently the 5 speed transmission has started to slip... but not just slip, it makes this clunking, binding noise (very noticeably loud) as its slipping.

I checked the linkages, and the drive belt. The belt looks like it could use replacing.

Also, now that I took the drive belt off, and I push the tractor manually, it will still make this binding/clunk... like it locks up, and then breaks free.

Any ideas? I don't want to waste the money on a drive belt, if its something much more serious and the tractor ends up being junk.

thanks much in advance!
 

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How do you shift this tranny - in an "H" pattern, or straight-line? If it's straight-line shifting, it sounds like the shift keys are worn.
What brand of tranny is it?
My Peerless tranny did the same thing with a load on it, in any gear. The shift keys lock the appropriate gear to its shaft, and when worn, lose their grip on the gear slot, but catch the next slot, giving a jerky motion and a nasty noise. The keys for mine cost me $8.00 each ($16.00 total), and a few hours of not-too-difficult work.
If yours has an "H" shift pattern, I haven't a clue....
Let us know as much information about the transmission as you can, such as brand, model #, etc.
:MTF_wel2:
 

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If its an H pattern, then the shifter forks are probably worn and are allowing it to get into 2 different gears at the same time, which will cause the issues you have having. Again, not a real expensive problem, the rear end is a peerless if I remember right, most of the expense will be your time to tear it out of the tractor, split the case and replace the shifter forks and detent springs. If you do end up junking the maching, I am in need of a good console for my 4212h and the latch tabs that keep the fenders locked down when you dont want them open. I hope your able to fix it though! Good Luck. Mike T
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Its Straight Line shifting. What you describe definitely sounds plausible... as it does happen in all gears... and under load... especially when driving in tight circles. I found the attached parts diagram... is part # 23 the key you refer to?

Also, where would I find the make/model of the transmission? In the owners manual or written on the tranny?

Thanks much for the help!


How do you shift this tranny - in an "H" pattern, or straight-line? If it's straight-line shifting, it sounds like the shift keys are worn.
What brand of tranny is it?
My Peerless tranny did the same thing with a load on it, in any gear. The shift keys lock the appropriate gear to its shaft, and when worn, lose their grip on the gear slot, but catch the next slot, giving a jerky motion and a nasty noise. The keys for mine cost me $8.00 each ($16.00 total), and a few hours of not-too-difficult work.
If yours has an "H" shift pattern, I haven't a clue....
Let us know as much information about the transmission as you can, such as brand, model #, etc.
:MTF_wel2:
 

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There should be a plate with the ID on the transmission itself, somewhere. It might be quite small (on my Peerless it's about 1" x 3/4", and tucked away in a recess near where the axle comes out).
This topic:
http://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=77777&highlight=shift
shows what I am talking about. There are some excellent pictures there.
It appears that yours is a different setup. I can't make out too much on your diagram, but it looks like #23 is just a regular type key. The shift keys I refer to move in slots along the shaft.
It looks to me like items 27 & 28 may act like the shift keys I refer to, but my monitor isn't clear enough for me to tell.
Is that "L" shaped, un-numbered item on the left the shift lever? (above item 14)
I'm not sure I can be of too much help here, sorry...
But, it does look like a variation of the tranny in the above link, where something slides inside the gears to lock one at a time to the shaft. I'm not giving up on ya, just not familiar with your unit. But, the basics are the basics, and between all of us here, we should be able to come up with some real help.
:goodl:

P.S. here's a link where I posted a picture of my worn shift keys: http://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=79338&highlight=shift
It doesn't look like anything I can see in your unit, but perhaps if you study how mine works, you can come up with just how yours works...
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
More Information for you very helpful gurus! I really do appreciate the help!

OK, the model is an 810 peerless. I seem to have narrowed down the cause. The clunking was happening worse on tight turns, and then I noticed that it even happened while I was in neutral and stepping on the brake/clutch.

SO! I now notice that when I step on the brake/clutch its forcing the left rear wheel outward. Also when I jack up the rear end, there is a LOT of play in that axle. Its not the bushing... the whole axle is able to be swayed back and forth. I am guessing this much play is allowing the slippage in the gears.

Why would stepping on the brake/clutch be forcing the wheel out... is the brake on both sides? I thought it was just the RIGHT rear wheel.

More importantly... how do I fix this axle play issue? Is it replaceable? Do I still need to remove the transaxle?

Any further insight would be MUCH appreciated!
 

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From looking at your diagram, the brake appears to stop one of the transmission shafts, which stops the wheels through the differential. This is pretty common. The axle may be moving out as a result of the braking forces, and not caused directly by the brake itself.
Interestingly enough, I once won a bet with someone about this kind of brake. If one wheel is on, say, ice, or an oil patch, applying the brake will NOT stop the vehicle; rather, it will continue forward, and the wheel on the ice/oil will turn backwards! That's why, on a boat ramp, you need to apply the parking brakes, which lock the wheels, instead of relying on Park, which only stops the driveshaft. Many a car has gone into the lake when one wheel slips on slime, etc, and the car rolls downhill.
Anyway, back to your tractor. Your diagram doesn't seem to show the axles, but it does sound to me like you need to remove the tranny and open it up to see what's going on, unless someone here has seen this problem before. I have not. Whatever retains the axle, whether a snap ring, etc, may have popped off, allowing the axle to shift away from what drives it, causing your symptoms. You may get lucky and not need any new parts, just re-install a snap ring :praying:
It looks to me like item #31 is part of your differential, and maybe items 12 being the spider gears. If so, 4 spiders indicate a beefy diff. Items 10 and 14 look like seals.
I have read about people who have tried to beat a stuck wheel off an axle, and ended up with an axle that sounds like yours. Perhaps even hitting a curb could cause a worn item to let loose.
Before you remove the tranny, I would suggest really cleaning up the axle area very well, and getting in there with a good light to see just what's going on. Maybe there is just something like a setscrew loose, or something you can do from the outside (yeah, wishful thinking...).
Hope this is of some help!

This link takes you to an 810 Peerless :http://www.odref.com/peerless/810-SERIES/
which doesn't look at all like the diagram you posted. Now I'm confused. Are you sure of the model #?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Fcubman,

thanks for following up! You are right... my initial diagram is totally wrong... turns out I had the wrong repair manual. The Peerless 810 is correct. It actually looks a little simpler... but I could be wrong.

I did find the correct Simplicity repair manual now... but of course it says to refer to the Peerless repair manual... which I can't find... but I'll keep looking.

I will try what you suggest.... otherwise take the tranny off and go from there. Not sure if I can still get parts for the peerless, but I'll try.

I really appreciate your time and insight into helping!
 

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You are quite welcome - happy to help!
I repaired my 1986-vintage Peerless a couple of months ago, and had no trouble getting parts from www.outdoordistributors.com
the same place I linked to, above. They have manuals you can download, and troubleshooting guides, too.
I was surprised at how easy it was to repair. If/when you get to that point, let us know, a few of us have "been there, done that". There is also a video on Youtube that shows the whole process.
You just need to take your time, be observant, and you'll git 'er done!
New trannys are available, but not all that cheap. However, it would still be cheaper than another tractor, probably, and you know the one you have.
Let's save the old ones!
:MTF_wel2:
 
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