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Hi Guys,
Fisrt post here on MTF, you guys seem to be a pretty good bunch, and I hope to learn a little from you. I've been in the market for a tractor to do general chores around my acre. Mowing, grading, tilling, etc. Eventually want to work up to landscaping, trenching, more etc. I have a line on a Ford 600 with a front end loader. Guy says it started to run rough, now it won't start. I haven't seen it yet, but was hoping You could give me a few pointers on what to look for, and make sure I'm not buying into a big pile of junk. I'm mechanically inclined enough to not be worried about it not starting, but without being able to run it, I have no idea about the rest of the tractor mechanicals, hydraulics, all the stuff that makes a tractor, a tractor. Any advice will help. Even if you just tell me to pass and wait for something better. Like most folks, I don't have a lot of money, and am looking for a decent deal. BTW, he's asking 2 grand.
 

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Howdy BigW and welcome to MyTractorForums. :MTF_wel2: I'm fairly new here myself as well as being a recent tractor owner as well. (1982 Ford 1900 with FEL.) And just up North from you.:OHCANMy personal advice would be to wait until something better comes along and it will in time. I mean you wouldn't buy a dead horse would you?:beatdeadhSave up a few more dollars and buy something that you can at least hear run and test out. Believe me you won't regret waiting a little longer. Good luck and when you do find something let us know and post some pics.
 

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Welcome,
The 600 has improvemnets over the 8n/naa. Probably no power steering. I know the 601 offer a hevy duty option with a heavier front axle and heavier clutch to be used with the FEL. It would be marked with heavy duty front label on the doglegs. I'm not sure if it was offered in the 600 model. Does it have some kind of counterweight?Wheel weights,axle weight or a hunk of concrete hanging off the 3pt hitch? Any pix of the tractor? Check the spindles, axle carrier pin and bearings for wear. Proofmeter working? hours?
Make sure the 3pt operates as it should. $2000 for a 600 w/loader that runs ok is a fair price but I would shoot for less.
For comparison here is a '58 601 series I picked up about 2 weeks ago for $1000. It did need a radiator and a fan otherwise runs good.

Good luck, Kirk
 

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Lets address a few issues first. then get down to the nitty gritty.

1, the 6xx is about a 34hp machine.. came in a 4spd and 5spd with non live pto, and a 5spd with live pto ( 2 stage clutch ).IE 640 and 650 were the non live, and the 660 was the live model. In general, ford 4 speeds are not good at al at rototilling.. they are just plain too fast. A 5 speed with a small tiller, and decent ground is the bare minimum I would think about.. probably take a couple passes even with that setup. Ideally you would find an 8spd from the thousand series.. they offer much better ground speed options.. however.. looks like the cards are dealing you a hundred series. First determine the model.. the model and serial numbers are onthe top of the flat of the bellhousing, aft of the starter.. will see a 3 digit model number like 640 and then a serial number... we can date it with those numbers... but if an 00 she will be from 55 to 57.

the red tiger ohv engine was a good one.. ford made a 134ci mode ( 6xx ) as well as a 172 and 192 ci model.. so it's a good basic design with lots of parts support.

starting hard and running rough can be anything from fuel obstruction to weak spark. weak spark can be a dirty ignition switch, dirty electrical contacts.. weak coil ( 6v coil on a 12v conversion and no resistor burns them up ).. or coroded or worn / slipped points I'd check points first.. they gap at .025 just like te plugs ( i reccomend al437 or champion h12 vs the oem champion h10 or al 216 ). if you suspect the ignition switch, a jumper wire from battery to coil will bypass that.

sometimes pulling a piece of coarse paper thru the points is enough to clean them.. in fact.. it's the recomended way... sanding and filing points shortens their lives. sanding leaves grit which causes high spots nad poor conductance on the surface level and this leads to micro-hot spots, arcing and scorching. If you ever have to pull emory paper thru points.. choose 400-2000 and then pull clean paper thru afterwards to remove any abrasives. filing the points can be done with a proper fine ignition hone.. however, you don't want to remove hardly any material.. the plated surface of a breaker contact has a hard metal like tungsten on them.. not very thick either.. once you file or sand thu it yo are lef with softer base metal that will not hold up as long. when you file you must keep the hone parallel to the contact to keep them true and keep surface contact area at maximum.. a single pass down each contact is more than enough... clean with paper. also.. a blip of grease ont he leading edge of the rubbing block where it contacts the distribuitor cam lobe will protect the lobes from wearing and make the rubbing block last longer so you don't have to regap the points as often.

if yo go look at it, take a piece of coarse paper like grocery sack.. stiff and straight not crumbled up... a gator clip jumper wire.. and a pocket knife. if the points are badly coroded runt he knife across to brek any glaze then clean with paper.. use jumper wire if needed to bypass ignition switch. A can of start fluid if you have one, can help diagnose fuel issues.. as if she starts and runs on start fluid in the mouth of the carb, but dies when you stop spraying.. it's likely fuel.

I have fords from the 600/800 series, 501, 901 series, and thousand series, as well as earlier models 8n, 2n, and naa.

the hundred series hyds are straight forward are easy to test.

post back

soundguy

Hi Guys,
Fisrt post here on MTF, you guys seem to be a pretty good bunch, and I hope to learn a little from you. I've been in the market for a tractor to do general chores around my acre. Mowing, grading, tilling, etc. Eventually want to work up to landscaping, trenching, more etc. I have a line on a Ford 600 with a front end loader. Guy says it started to run rough, now it won't start. I haven't seen it yet, but was hoping You could give me a few pointers on what to look for, and make sure I'm not buying into a big pile of junk. I'm mechanically inclined enough to not be worried about it not starting, but without being able to run it, I have no idea about the rest of the tractor mechanicals, hydraulics, all the stuff that makes a tractor, a tractor. Any advice will help. Even if you just tell me to pass and wait for something better. Like most folks, I don't have a lot of money, and am looking for a decent deal. BTW, he's asking 2 grand.
 

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Well...

I was going to give you some tips... but looks like SouNdguy covered it all.. :fing32:

Regardless of what the issue is... I'd almost guarantee that it's not going to be too difficult to fix (as long as you've not got compression issues)... whether it's fuel or ignition.

:goodl:

:MTF_wel2:

...and... :wwp:
 

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Welcome to MTF. Glad to have you. You have been given some great advice and now it is up to you. Unless it is super cheap I would not buy one that is not running.
 

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Well, I talked to the seller on the phone today. He said that the transmission and hydraulics worked real good and he was using it building a driveway when it stopped running. He said that even with a good battery, it doesn't turn over, then he said he thought it was because it had no spark. I quizzed him a little, saying that there was a big difference between 'no spark' and 'won't turn over', and which was it? He said nothing happened when you tried to start it. As in no crank. It sounds like it could be a little worse than simply filing the points.

So, let's say, worse case scenerio, if he ran it out of oil, or some such major clamity, what would it cost to make it right? What's an engine rebuild cost for a 600 engine? If it needed a block or a crank, is that something readily available, and where would one go to find "big parts"?

I'm going to try to find time to see it this weekend. I'll post back with my findings. I appreciate all your words of wisdom. ;-)
 

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I'd be VERY wary of this one. $2000 is considerably more than a tractor with a stuck engine would be worth to me. Check it out... if it will not turn over at all... My recommendation would be to leave it... unless you can talk him down to $500 or $600 for it.

Figure on $400 or so for an engine kit (plus shop fees). A block... well you (obviously) won't find one new... used... it'd run whatever you can get a salvaged block for.

All in all... IF the engine is stuck... you're talking about some significant expense... and quite a bit of work until you've got a usable tractor.
 

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What does he mean by nothing happens? Nothing happens as in the engine won't turn over (stuck), or as in the starter doesn't do anything (electrical) If the engine is stuck it will definitely be more $$ to fix but if it's just an electrical problem, it'll be nothing to fix.
 

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I called the guy today to make an appointment to see the tractor in person. He said a buddy of his looked at it and said the starter was bad, and they were going to put a new one on. When I got there, the starter had already been removed. So I took the opportunity to try to turn the flywheel with a big prybar, and it wouldn't turn. In fact, it seemed to have some lateral movement and I could hear a clunking sound from inside the block. That didn't give me a warm, fuzzy feeling. It does have a hydraulic pump for the front loader mounted to the front of the crankshaft, sticking out from below the grille. Would that make it harder, or impossible, to turn the engine by hand? Oh, and yes, I did make sure the trans (4 speed, btw) was in neutral. ;-)

On the plus side, it turns out it is a 641, sn# 97597, which would make it a 1959 model, according to the tractor ID site I found. It has power steering, and a 4 foot front loader with hyd. trip. The tag on it is too faded to read, but it is stamped along the bottom 'Model Ford WM4'. There's also a 3 point back blade made by the Armor Farm Implement Company of Vancouver Washington, model Y40.

Cosmetically, the fenders are shot, and it's been painted blue over the red, with cream on the tin, and right over the Ford 601 Workmaster decals. Not very attractive, but it is an old Ford tractor, so it's still cool.

I'll wait and see what happens when the guy puts the new starter on. I'm guessing nothing is going to change. He did say the rear main seal leaks, and he thinks the engine needs an overhaul, based solely on the fact the engine leaks. I'll probably take a pass on this one, 'cause I really don't need another major project, but I sure could use a bucket and backblade. Please feel free to comment further. ;-)

Thanks for listening, guys! I had planned to take my camera, but forgot. Sorry.
Wayne
 

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hello bigw i bought a 820 with a loader awhile back and its a powerful tractor and runs good but make sure the external pump is good and working for the three point they are worth more than the tractor! mine was an original non 3 point and it is costing me a fortune getting all the change over parts. make sure it has a piston pump also not a vane pump for that much money.
 

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It may not be a rear main seal leak. It maybe a leak at the gasket where the trans hooks up. They will both leak out off the same hole on the bottom of the bellhousing. The one with the cotter pin sticking out. Either way you will probably be looking at a split. You can diconnect the pump and spin the engine. If still stuck I would be concerned. If this was the case it would affect my offer. If owner is not willing to nego. to your liking maybe best to move on. I have often seen owners unwilling to nego. the price and then offer them the same months/years later and have then accept it. You can alway say here's my # if you change your mind.

Kirk
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Hi Guys, out of curiosity, I emailed the guy selling the tractor yesterday, asking if he got the new starter on yet, and if it fixed the problem. He just replied that his mechanic believes it has a bearing out, which is freezing the crankshaft. (surprise!) He said he'll take $1500 for it, otherwise he'll have it fixed and keep it. Your thoughts? Here's a picture the guy sent me. Thanks in advance!
 

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Nice tires, power steering, sheet mental looks to be pretty good from what you can see. To me a non runner is a non runner. I, Myself don't want to paid more than $500/$600 for a non runner. My reasoning is that you don't know what the problems are. You can fix the engine(which ain't going to be cheap) unless you do it yourself and then there's cost of parts and machine work but once you fix the engine you might find out there might be trouble with the trans or hydraulics or ??? I've been there done that. With a non runner there is much else you can test.
I will pay more for a tractor if the cost of the parts on it will exceeds the cost of the tractor price. If I can't put it back together I can always part it out and get my money out of it.
It's up to you. I would pass on it, look for something else. Chances are he will still have it, maybe make the owner an offer after a couple, few months. In this economy it's a good time to buy a tractor but a bad time to sell.

Kirk
 

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I agree.. a non runner is a 500$ tractor.. perhaps 700$ since it has a loader and PS.

if it is a siezed bearing.. that could mean a new crank.. or a turned crank.. and all new bearings.. etc.

soundguy
 
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