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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hello,

I'm new to this forum, but have been lurking/reading for awhile to familiarize myself with the various Ford tractors. I am currently looking to pick up one mainly for snowblowing duties and have two candidates in mind:

Candidate 1: 1973 LGT 165 with 2-stage blower and 42" mower deck. Seems in decent shape for its age. Hydrostatic trans whines a bit, but I understand that's normal. Appears to have minor leak on hydrostatic filter. Is VERY local for me, which is unusual since I live in the U.P. of Michigan. Normally everything is downstate.

Candidate 2: Newer style closed side LGT 165 (possibly needs new electric PTO and headlights) located downstate. Single-stage blower, rear tiller, front blade, 42" deck (needs pulley) and a generic garden cart painted Ford blue. Reasonable shape for its age. I prefer the looks of the newer style vs the older style. The only drawback is that single stage blower. I would definitely have to find a two-stage blower for the amount of snow we get (200-300 inches per year).

It looks like I could afford either one. (around $700).

Now for my questions:

Will implements fit either style tractor? From what I've read, they're pretty much interchangeable between the older open-engine design and the closed-panel model, but I thought I'd ask.

If I remember correctly, the tractors themselves are almost the same between the early 70's style and the mid-late 70's closed side style? Or are there some important differences

I'm assuming that roto-tiller setups with the rear PTO are harder to find/more expensive than two-stage snowblowers?

Would a two-stage blower from a Jacobsen Homelite fit the LGT 165? From what I've read, the Ford was made by Jacobsen and that the only differences are cosmetic, not mechanical.

Is there anything in particular I need to watch out for on either tractor when I go to look at them? Both supposedly run well and are fully functional (other than the PTO on the closed panel 165).

If there's anything I've forgotten to ask, please chime in. I've tried to read through the Ford forum as much as I could so that I didn't ask a FAQ. But I couldn't seem to find any definitive answers to the above questions.

My father is retired and has started restoring old tractors, both full sized and GTs. He currently has a Bolens he swapped an Onan motor into and an EXTREMELY nice condition Allis Chalmers B-112 w/variable speed transmission and hydraulic lift that starts the second you touch the key, hot or cold. After looking his tractors over, I was bitten by the bug and wanted one for myself. And being a Ford fan anyhow, getting a Ford tractor seemed natural seeing how well made these tractors are.

Thanks for reading this far. :)
 

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Get both... restore them and sell one of them when done... this way you get the 2 stage blower ( verry hard to find ) and the PTO ( verry hard to find )
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Well, the decision ended up being easier than I thought it would be. I talked to the local guy with the '73 and he offered to sell me not only the tractor/mower/2-stage blower for $600, but he also included a nearly complete identical LGT 165 parts machine. About the only major things missing are the starter and muffler. That was enough to seal the deal. I have the good tractor/mower and the snowblower home and will pick up the parts tractor tomorrow after work. And yes, pics will follow. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
As promised, here are pics of the good LGT-165 and the "parts" machine. The parts machine is actually fairly complete and seems to have good compression. I may swap over the starter from my good tractor just to see if I can get it to fire up. But that's a project for another day. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
What's odd is that they're both showing as 09JC3335. But the good machine has its engine pan bolted in and the parts machine's pan is welded in. Two machines of the same year with different manufacturing techniques? Or was 09JC3335 used as a generic part number for these style machines and you have to look elsewhere to determine the year? :confused:
 

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Wow, that snow blower looks like it has never been used. I don't know about the motor mounts, but my 74 LGT165 is welded.
 

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Creig, that tractor is in great shape for it's age. I would say you got a great deal on both tractors. Was the snowblower ever painted? I've only seen the auger housing in white.

As for the model number, it is generic for the LGT 165 between '72 and '76. I believe the '72-'74 were welded pans and '75 and '76 were bolted pans.

If you have any questions about the tractor, feel free to fire away. I have owned several of these and still have two of them. One was redone from top to bottom. Good luck with them and congrats on the great find.

Year is determined by the engine serial number. Here is some info on Kohler's serial numbers:

 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks for that spec sheet, Mickey. It looks like the good machine is not a 1973 as the seller said but is instead a 1976 model. Engine serial #7348023. He must have looked at the engine serial number and assumed 1973 due to the first two numbers. That would make the parts machine a 1974 model with engine serial #6251098.

And yes, both the tractor and snowblower have been repainted. Not the best job in the world, but certainly not bad.

I think before winter hits I'm going to pull the tires/wheels off, have the wheels sandblasted/powder coated white and buy a set of front tires that actually have a tread pattern to them instead of the smooth tires that are on it currently. I can't imagine those smooth rubber tires would get much traction while snowblowing. And I'll definitely be stopping by TSC for a set of tire chains for the rear. I'll be keeping my eyes open for a set of wheel weights as well.

I'm not looking forward to winter, but hopefully it won't be nearly as bad now that I have this tractor. I have a few small upgrades planned before snow flies in addition to the routine maintenance I normally perform when purchasing a vehicle (oil, filter, plug, grease fittings, wear points, etc).

Planned upgrades:

LED lighting in headlights
Auxiliary LED lighting mounted to snowblower
Motorized chute rotation
Motorized chute deflection

I'd think about tearing it apart and repainting it, but I'm finishing up a complete tear down/rebuild of a late 80's 4x4 Ranger at the moment. I'm hoping to finish up the bodywork and paint it by the end of September. Since snow up here usually starts Oct/Nov, I think I'll put off any restoration ideas until spring.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Ugh. Looks like maintenance is going to be a bit more in-depth than I originally thought (doesn't that always seem to happen)? Mowed the lawn yesterday and everything seemed to work fine. Certainly was faster and ended up with a smoother cut than my John Deere SX95. Since I still have the SX, I decided I would pull off the mower deck and install the snowblower, just to make sure everything is set for snow. I'll just clean up the LGT deck and put it away for the season and use the SX95 until snow flies.

After it was all hooked up, I flipped it on and off a few times. Seemed fine except that the chains are a bit loose. Figured I was set except for some greasing. Well, that was until after I had greased everything and turned it back on for one last test. That was when I noticed that the driveshaft between the blower and the tractor seemed to be wobbling a bit. Actually, more than a bit. A LOT. Looks like it needs a new set of bushings on the input shaft. Yay, me.

I just visited the New Holland site and although they have exploded diagrams and part numbers for virtually every piece of the snowblower, I didn't see any that corresponded to the input shaft/gear/bushings. Does anybody have one or know where to find one so I can figure out what I'll need to rebuild this? I'll take a couple pics so people will know what I'm trying to describe.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Well, here are the pics. As you can see, somebody else attempted to place a brass "shim" around the shaft on the outer side of the shaft. Obviously this has been going bad for quite some time now. They even created a block-off plate to keep the insert from spinning itself out. A bit cheesy, but better than nothing, I suppose.

And on the chain gear, if you look closely, you can see what appears to be a washer near the top. But it is actually stuck to the gear and has a jagged edge that appears to taper around the shaft. Odd. Actually, the top left picture of the gear sitting on the housing shows the jagged edge better than the blurry closeup I attempted.

Still looking to try and find an exploded view of this area so maybe I can find a part number. I looked on the New Holland website and found their files for the 2-stage LGT snowblower, but about the only thing it DIDN'T show was the area I needed. Sounds about right. :)

http://partstore.agriculture.newholland.com/us/SchartnerImplement/parts-search.html#mr04-6450

If all else fails, I suppose I could hammer out the remaining bushing, measure the diameter of the housing it was in and measure the diameter of the cross shaft and see if I can buy a couple pieces of bushing to replace them with.

I've never actually toyed with bushings before, so this is new to me. I also don't know how the grease from the zerk fitting would distribute itself if the shaft is tight to the bushing. Is there a hole drilled in the bushing and a channel cut along the inside to allow the grease to lubricate the entire shaft?

Oh, and the last pic is the reason why the 165 is going to have to be patient until spring before any sort of real restoration can begin.
 

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Creig, here are some images that I have from the Jacobsen master catalog. I believe they are images of what you have. If not, let me know and I'll see if I can dig up some other ones. Hope this helps you out.
The Ford part numbers are the same as the Jacobsen ones except the Ford numbers have the prefix JAC in front of them. When visiting Ford sites, use the prefix in front of the numbers found here to do any searches. Good Luck.






 

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Discussion Starter #14
And Mickey comes through again. Thanks a lot! That's extremely helpful.

Looks like I need a pair of part #5. I'll give a New Holland dealer a call tomorrow to see if they're still available. And I'll ask if #48 (cross shaft) and #52-#54 are available as well. The cross shaft is a bit scored, but is probably usable. But if they actually happen to have stock and it's not too expensive, it'd be nice to put in all new parts so that there isn't any slop.

If those bushings aren't available, I'll just have to do some careful measuring to get some generic replacements made up. Maybe I'll even have someone put the cross shaft on a lathe to clean it up and then buy bushings to match the new diameter.
 

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Creig, be sure to use JAC in front of the part numbers you need. That tells Ford that they are Jacobsen parts(thus the prefix JAC).

I found some bushings at my local Tractor Supply Co. They were frame bushings that hold the implement lift shaft in the chassis. If you can remove the old bushing and bring the sprocket and shaft with you , you may be able to match them up to what they may have.

If New Holland does have it, be forewarned of the prices. Parts are kind of pricey if available, but in the long run I guess they are cheaper than throwing your back out behind a snow shovel. If you don't have any luck with a local New Holland dealer, try Messicks(they advertise on this forum). I've heard nothing but good things about them. Good luck and if you need any more info, let me know.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thanks again, Mickey. I just got off the phone with the nearest New Holland dealer and, surprisingly, most of the parts I wanted were available.

Input shaft bushings, thrust washers, shims, chute rotation gear and even a sheet metal safety shield for the impeller chain. They couldn't get the input shaft or the input shaft chain gear. But both of those are still in fair condition on my machine. I just thought I'd replace them as well since I had everything apart. Total damage? About $120 + shipping. I could have done without the $45 safety shield, but would hate to have something metal get caught up in that fast spinning chain and do who-knows-how-much damage. Should hopefully arrive here by the weekend so I can get it all back together.
 

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Sounds great. You should be back in business in no time. I envy having that blower. On a more practical note, my driveway is not that long. The ol' Ariens 8 hp two stage self propelled handles my snowblowing chores. Eventually, I would like to get one for my Ford or Gravely. Here are some pics of last winter that the Ariens took care of.

http://s488.photobucket.com/albums/rr247/Mickeymotormount/2010 Blizzard/
 

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Discussion Starter #18
The bushings have been replaced for the input shaft and am awaiting the arrival of a pair of thrust washers and a shim from starving_ohio_artist (TYVM, Steve!), but here's basically what I did.

I took a socket and tapped what was left of original bushings from the outside to the inside. (Pic 005 and Pic 007)

My father had a couple of NOS 3/4" ID bushings in pillow blocks in his shop, so I had him bring them over to my house the last time he stopped over. I put the pillow block in a vice and tapped out the bushing with the same socket. According to my Dad (who is a retired heavy equipment mechanic and now restores full size tractors), the majority of bushings all have the same material thickness. So you mainly look for one with the correct inside diameter. Then the outside diameter will most likely also be correct. And he was correct in this case. The bushings he brought along fit perfectly.

I measured how long each bushing was going to need to be since one is longer than the other. The longer bushing was exactly the same length as the ones I'd pulled from the pillow blocks. The other one needed to be cut down slightly, which I did with a hack saw. I used a round file to smooth the edges of the cut edge when I'd finished.

I then measured how far in each of the zerk fittings were and drilled a hole in each bushing so grease could push into the bushing. Next, I cleaned everything carefully with gas and let it dry. When it was ready, I liberally coated the outside of the bushing with red thread locker (high strength) since I didn't have any stud and bearing retainer handy. Aligning the zerk hole with the zerk fitting, I tapped the bushing in place. To do so, I put the socket away and instead set a piece of wood against the end of the bushing and hit the wood only hard enough to drive the bushing in place a little at a time. I started with the shorter piece first and it went in quite easily. Probably because the outside of the bearing retainer mounted on the snow blower was egged out at the outside edge due to extreme wear. (Pic 006)

Then I switched to the other side and repeated the process. This time, however, I was only able to get the bushing partway in before resistance became too great and I started having to hit the wood so hard that the bushing was beginning to drive into the wood. Afraid that I was going to mushroom the end of the bushing, I switched tactics and got a piece of flat aluminum and a large C clamp. I clamped the aluminum stock over end of the bushing and began to apply force by tightening the clamp. Even that wasn't enough. So once the clamp had a lot of tension, I would hit the end of the clamp that was over the bushing and it would overcome the friction and pop in about a 1/2 inch at a time. I was able to do this several times until only about 1/8" of bearing was still protruding outside of the snow blower housing housing. I put a grease gun on each zerk and was able to get grease to come through both sides, so I called it good at that point.

One of my thrust washers and shims was extremely deformed/worn. Hopefully yours are in good shape. Unfortunately, it turns out that the thrust washers, shims, chute rotation gear and belt guard that I had ordered from a NH dealer were unavailable. After talking with the nearest dealer on the phone, it turns out that NH only updates their database once a year. They have no real time inventory system. So if something goes out of stock, the dealers don't know about it until they go to order it and it comes back as unavailable, even though it shows as available on their computer. In this day and age of telecommunications, there is no excuse for having such an antiquated system for inventory tracking. I would hope that NH would join the 1990's and implement a better system than they currently have, soon.

If you're lucky and your shims/thrust washers are still good, don't forget to check your cross shaft for any high spots or ridges. Mine had a few spots that needed to be filed down or else it would have dug into the new bushing once I put everything back together.

I don't have a set of dial calipers yet, so would only be able to guess at outside diameter. The inside diameter is 3/4". I'm thinking that a generic 3/4" brass/bronze bushing will probably work. A lot of people mention TSC for sourcing parts, but I've never tried looking for bushing material there. Possibly an industrial shop or electric motor repair facility would have large quantities of various size bushings that they could cut off for you at the lengths you specify. Since it's only a couple of inches, it should be fairly cheap. Certainly much cheaper than $21 each for the factory bushings.

On a downside, my hydraulic lift cylinder has started leaking copiously past the shaft seal. :fing20: One step forward, one step back. From looking at it, this cylinder has a welded cap that must be cut off and re-welded once new seals have been installed. However, in searching the forum, I did come across one post from a person who said their LG14H had a welded cap, but the instructions for replacing the seals said that the shaft could be pulled out by removing the 90 degree fittings from the cylinder, putting a piece of round stock through the eyelet and either pounding the cylinder out or pulling it out. Is there any truth to this method and would it apply to our LGTs? Or is cutting/welding the only option?

In the meantime, I will remove the cylinder from my parts machine and test it to see if it's in any better condition. If so, I will install it in my good tractor and see if I can cheaply fix the original cylinder. I still hope to work on the parts tractor to see if it runs or has any major issues. If everything seems to work, I may try to restore the parts tractor over the winter while using the good one for snowblowing and then rebuild the good one over next summer.

Next update will be either the re-installation of the input shaft/gear or removal/installation of the lift cylinder. I am also going to be switching over from an in-line hydrostatic filter to a spin-on style. I'll try to continue to document everything.

Thanks again to everyone for their help and advice. :trink39: It's a race to see if I can get this thing ready before snow flies.
 

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creig,

pic 6 shows the old bearing still in the houseing correct?
I'm hoping to mess with mine this weekend.
any guess at the outside diameter? I've hit up mcmaster and they have a couple different size OD for the 3/4 ID.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
creig,

pic 6 shows the old bearing still in the houseing correct?
I'm hoping to mess with mine this weekend.
any guess at the outside diameter? I've hit up mcmaster and they have a couple different size OD for the 3/4 ID.
Well, I got out an old cheap mechanical set of calipers and it appears that the bushing is 3/4" ID and 7/8" OD. Not going to say that's it 100%, but that's what I'd order if I were picking up some.
 
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