[Woofer]

Hello all! Got hooked on this board after a bought an MTD 990. Noticed in some of stonykill's threads the 2 wheelers and it struck a memory that i had seen something like that in the back of one of my grandfather's barns. Turned out to be a David Bradley Super Power that hasn't been started in 30 years. Just got it back to my house today and tore into the engine. I was surprized to see what great condition the tires were in, but sad to see that someone over the years had pulled the spark plug and left it open. Didn't think there would be much hope for the engine but thought i might just repower it. After blowing out all the critter nests and pulling the head with some help of air tools things don't look so bad inside. My first of many questions is does anyone have a manual for a Briggs Model 8? Or at least know what spark plug it takes? Also i see on the engine it calls for straight 20W for the engine and 30W for the tranny, I'm wondering if i can run straight 30W all the way around or maybe some modern synthetic? My mom's main memory of this machine was that it ran so fast my grandfather was the only one that could use it. Fast out of a 2 1/4 hp? We shall see lol.

Thanks!

Phil
:thanku:

 

[ge-off]

I just posted over in the Snapper forum about synthetic. I wouldn't run anything but standard SAE30 (no synthetic) in that engine, unless the older machines used something different? As for the transmission, I don't know.

Looks like a winner to me! Good luck!

 

[Ingersoll444]

Nice, and in NICE solid shape it looks like!!!!!

 

[Woofer]

I actually did track down a manual for the engine. Just had to put the exact right numbers i the search. This is a B&S 702052 Model 8 (the plates are a bit hard to read). Got everything cleaned up and back together, but now it appears I don't have any spark. At least everything is spinning freely. Dang 55 year old engine that hasn't run in 30 years and now i expect to get it running in one day lol. Spent about an hour earlier trying to track down a condenser or an updated number with no luck. Not sure if there is a cross reference for this or not. Closest I found works with most of the single digit B&S but of course the 8 isn't listed. Oh what fun lol! I will say the B&S isn't a whole lot of help. The spark plug for this engine is the Champ RJ19LM if anyone else is looking. It actually seems a bit short to me, but what do i know. Back to the hunt (actually to change the oil on my 990).

:thanku:

 

[Springfieldm141972]

If I remember correctly the condenser will interchange with a Ford. I got my first David Bradley from my grandfather as well. I ran it for a few years prior to the engine finally giving up the ghost. I still regrett destroying that engine. Those old engines require a lead additive in the gasoline for lubrication. I would suggest re-powering with a newer 3.5 hp horizontal shaft engine. I now have 4 more DB's and my grandfather's is used alot less often.

 

[Woofer]

Thanks for the info. It had been rattling around in the back of my head about the lead question as well. And ge-off you are probably right about the synthetics, I've run into issues before with old seals not liking anything too modern. The engine case mentions a 20W for the engine and a 30W for the tranny but for now I'm just going to run the Shell straight 30W in both. I cleaned up the Armature and the flywheel but still no spark. Short of replacing the coil and condenser I'm not sure where else to go at this point. I've found some coils that are close and i may just take the chance of blowing $35 to see if i can get one to work. My total investment so far is about $10 and a couple of afternoons so a little gamble won't kill me lol. I do have a couple of 5 hp engines i could repower this with but I'd really like to get the original engine running if at all possible.

 

[Tractor-Holic]

That engine has points under the flywheel,a cover with 2 or 3 screws hides them--but are a different style than the usual ones most Briggs had that had one of the contacts made right onto the end of the condensor..its a "WICO" magneto I think..I have used a chevy condensor and the round clamp for it in a pinch on those old cast iron Briggs engines,usually the points can be re-used by removing them and cleaning them ,I use a wire brush on my bench grinder,or a dremel tool with a brass wire brush,it does not remove any metal like filing will,or alter the alignment..you may be able to find new points still at an older mower shop or online I'm sure too..

The coil is the hardest thing to get if its bad,and its costly if you can find one,I recently had to salvage one I thought I ruined ,when I found a replacement costs 100+ bucks,because they are "discontinued"..mine had one wire snap off where it entered the epoxied area of the winding,but I was able to retrieve enough of it to solder a new wire too the solid original one,which are fragile,so be forewarned!..

I doubt the lack of lead will hurt that engine ,but you can buy a lead additive or use some marvel mystery oil in the gas if you wish too,just in case..Acetone works wonders to clean those old carbs and gas tanks out..the brass tubes on the carb are delicate,I'd just clean them by filling the tank with acetone and let them soak a few days,then blow some carb cleaner into the main jet hole after removing the adjustment screw..those carbs usually survive well unless old gas turned to shellac in them and clogged the screens on the brass tubes..I have resurected many I thought would never work again with the acetone though..

 

[bstrucker]

You shouldn't have to hard of time finding an extra engine for parts but make sure you check your sparkplug wire,I've found them to be the problem a lot of times and like Tractor-Holic says make sure your points are clean and set.

 

[Woofer]

I cleaned the flywheel and the pickups but have not had a chance to take it off the engine yet (could be a trick, nut majorly rusted). Thanks for the pointer about the points, may try to get into it again this weekend. I will have to figure out something for the muffler as well. At some point in time someone pushed it out of the barn (this is at a back barn that is separate from my grandparent's main farm house) and it looks like it sat nose down in the dirt for a good while which rusted off the muffler and allowed critters up through the exhaust valve. Luckily the valve freed up and everything is turning over fine. I also kind of wondered about the plug wire, it doesn't look to healthy where it is attached to the coil. I'm resisting the dark side urge just to repower and am going to try like heck to get this old family machine running again under it's own power lol. I will pick up some acetone as well. The tank is in pretty good condition although the glass fuel filter leaks a bit. I haven't pulled the carb yet as i was first trying to get some fire going with stater fluid and a little gas right through the plug hole. I'm pretty sure this was run dry of gas before it was stored. Worst part is i think my grandfather had me walk this machine the half mile to the back barn when i was about 12 so i was probably the last one to run it 30 years ago. If i only knew then lol...

 

[bstrucker]

I've gotten 2 old walk behinds running in the past couple of months,both are from the 1940s,a Bolens model 12 and a model B Choremaster,both with Clinton engines and both of them looked a lot worse than yours.The block on the Choremaster was pretty bad though and I ruined the piston getting it out,I was able to pick up a good block with a good crank and piston in it a couple of weeks later at an auction.I'm still looking for a couple of things that I need to finish both of them but the engines are running.If your only going to restore it and not use it much,I'd stay with the original engine,if your thinking that you might put it back to work,then consider repowering it.My Bolens has an early model 700A Clinton engine on it with an oil pump in the engine,I had a couple of oil slingers that I could have put in it but I left it with the pump,just because.:thThumbsU

 

[bstrucker]

If the threads are good in your exhaust port and you just have a short piece of the muffler stuck in there,take a hacksaw blade and cut through the remaining piece,you'll be using just the blade and cutting into the port,try to cut all the way through,don't worry if you hit the threads a little,it's only in one spot,it won't hurt anything.Once you get it cut through in one or two places,take a center punch or a good chisel with a square corner on it and tap the piece to collapse it,usually they don't come out to hard,then you can put a newer muffler on it,TSC has mufflers from Arnold for a couple dollars that work good.

 

[rscurtis]

Keep in mind that the flywheel nut should be a left-hand thread.

 

[Tractor-Holic]

Keep in mind that the flywheel nut should be a left-hand thread.

A VERY important note I should not have omitted ,Rscurtis!..!!..Thanks for mentioning that!..
I once busted a crank off on one of the 5s Briggs I had,I learned the hard way they used left hand threads on many cast iron Briggs flywheel nuts! !..

 

[Woofer]

LOL the whole reason i just logged on was that i was wondering about the threads on the flywheel. I've run into that issue on old cars where i thought something was super rusted on only to break out the impact wrench and discover my mistake too late. I have been kicking around the idea of getting this original motor running but then repowering with a more modern 5 h.p. i have for everyday use. Thanks for the info. about the muffler as well. That is similar to what i had to do for my 990. The TSC company muffler isn't pretty but it does the job. I will say these old garden tractors are a heck of lot cheaper than the old car hobby .

 

[Woofer]

Update:

I cleaned up the plug wire and installed a Mega Fire II and am now getting good spark, but the most I've gotten out of the engine is a few back fires. I put in one of those "E" plugs (forget the name) and some 94 octane, Seafoam, cleaned carb, etc., is there something obvious I'm missing with this old engine? I about broke my shoulder yesterday (no recoil) because it sounded so close to firing up but no banana. I'm wondering if a new head gasket would help, but this one doesn't look too bad. Any tricks to these old Briggs? :banghead3

Thanks!

Phil

 

[bstrucker]

Make sure that your actually getting fuel to the carb,I'm figuring this engine has a high mounted tank that siphon feeds the carb.What carb is on it?Does i have a choke?and is the choke working?Most of the time on these older engines,I'll choke it for one or 2 pulls,then pull it a time or 2 without the choke but if the choke isn't working,it'll take for ever to start it unless you spin it with a drill or another engine.The head gasket shouldn't be the problem,I've reused many on these older engines,as long as there aren't pieces missing,these are a very low compression engine.On that same vane,high test won't help it start any easier,if your looking for something to make it fire,use either or carb cleaner.Play with the throttle while you staring it,I've had some start fine at an idle while others want the throttle open.

 

[LilysDad]

Do you have this website?
http://www.asecc.com/data/briggs/

 

[Woofer]

It looks like the small Flo-Jet two piece, but I'll have to double check that. Been trying the carb cleaner, either, and/or gas right in the plug hole with no luck just in case i had carb issues. The carb actually looks pretty good as i said i think this engine was run dry before it was parked. I have tried about every throttle/choke setting combo i could come up with. About the only thing i haven't done is put the air cleaner back on. May be the next step. At least at this point i have visible spark at the plug, was really afraid the coil was toast. Drill assisted starting not a bad idea, may try to rig something up. Sounds like i just need to work the gremlins out of it. So close and yet so far lol...

Thanks for the info!

 

[bstrucker]

It looks like the small Flo-Jet two piece, but I'll have to double check that. Been trying the carb cleaner, either, and/or gas right in the plug hole with no luck just in case i had carb issues. The carb actually looks pretty good as i said i think this engine was run dry before it was parked. I have tried about every throttle/choke setting combo i could come up with. About the only thing i haven't done is put the air cleaner back on. May be the next step. At least at this point i have visible spark at the plug, was really afraid the coil was toast. Drill assisted starting not a bad idea, may try to rig something up. Sounds like i just need to work the gremlins out of it. So close and yet so far lol...

Thanks for the info!

If it's popping/trying to start,you should be close,there isn't any timing to mess with so that pretty much rules that out,are you sure the valves are working ok?Did you clean all of the carbon of of the head and piston?That will change the timing some,also make sure your points are set correctly at .020 or even try closing them to .015 and see if that helps.Do you have the right plug in it?I've had a couple of old Briggs Y engines that only wanted to start with one plug that I have.

 

[bstrucker]

Another thing that I just thought of,if you've been using quite a bit of carb cleaner/either/gas right in the cylinder,try putting a little oil in the cylinder,I like to use soy oil or some type of vegetable oil,because it burns of better once the engine starts.The thinking is that if you've been washing the oil film off of the cylinder wall,the oil will increase the compression enough to make it fire.Usually,once it starts and runs for a few minutes,it'll start a lot easier the next time.