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when i changed photo album accts i didn't think ahead about the links to the old album going dead, and the original post won't let me edit the new photo links back inm so I've copied and pasted the original thread at http://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=95080 (and there's some good info there from other posters, so do browse it if you can

and in rebuilding the thread, i've added back the starter images


below from orig thread:

as i just pulled the starter apart on that engine i'm planning on rebuilding, thought i'd detail it with some shots for those that haven't pulled one apart

before i start though, found something interesting - i googled for nippon denso as their mfgr's plate w/part number is on the starter

sure enough, found a nippon denso in california with our very starter, retail of $96.80 or about 1/4 of honda's price at $384.00

Nippon Denso's starter series number is DB5D6 and the stock number is 028000-8411 (this same starter series is used in 24V for some of the kubota diesels and here's a link to the nippon denso distributor {http://www.densoproducts.com/resultsSearch.asp - if the page shows blank search results, punch in that stock number and search again - i suspect if someone did a more intensive google search, a better price is probably out there to be hand. UPDATE: nippon denso's distributor will no longer sell to the public, but Dave4514 found some aftermarket vendors offering the same starter in the $99 - $120 range:

http://nations-starter.com/honda-industrial-engines.html

http://www.nationsautoelectric.com/Smallengine.html

http://www.spidermarine.com/showitem...ooth Starter

btw - the first two links are the same company - not sure why they'd build and maintain two websites offering the same items but they confirmed to me they are one in the same



below is the shot of the starter body with the mfgr's plate




suspect the same could be done for the 4514 & 4518 starters


i'll start the starter breakdown /rebuild tonite but will have to finish it later - unfortunately it didn't occur to me to take some pix until i had it all apart. It's not difficult at all to dis-assemble except for one small part - the semi-circular spring clip that goes under the small sleeve at the end of the armature shaft - but i'll detail how i got it off when i take the shots re-assembling the starter

below the bolts behind the flywheel that will have to be removed once the flywheel is off



and below are shots of the starter dis-assembled - that difficult semi circular spring clip is highlited w/red arrow. The other item identified is what honda refers to as a "free wheeling" clutch - basically, it engages only in one direction to allow the pinion gear to turn the flywheel, then once engine fires and starts to rotate at a higher rpm than the starter is turning that pinion gear, that clutch allows the gear to spin with the flywheel till you've released the starter at the ignition key.






next shot is of that free wheeling clutch turned over





the free wheeling clutch was hanging up, that gear is one pc with the body surrounded by that stamped shell - it felt real gritty when it would turn but would not spin freely - i took and soaked it in mineral spirits for a day or so, and every time i'd think about it, i'd go over and spin the gear inside the body to help work whatever carbon had accumulated inside. about a dozen or so "spin sessions" and it felt pretty clean, so i let it drain, blew it out as much as possible with an air hose, and let it sit in the sun for awhile to let whatever mineral spirits remained to vent out. gasonline would have worked as well

then i soaked in some silicone oil (pure silicone from dow chemical - alot of what you see labeled "silicone" is diluted considerably if it's silicone at all)

I like silicone as it will not dry out, at all, period, zero, nada and it won't conduct electricity - then after soaking in a cup of silicone, i wiped it off, and let it drain on a paper towel for a few days trying to get whatever excess out i could, again blowing it out with compressed air a few times - it would come out slowly. I don't suspect it needs a lot of oil (remember it only turns for a few seconds at each use) but it does need some - and it's definitely turning or spinning more freely and smoothly than before. Somewhere in the honda svc manual it said something about "check for lubrication" but implied if it was dry, then replace. Sorry, at $174 (iirc), I'm too cheap and honda's too proud of that part

anyway, next couple shots are of the brushes - they're installed on the commutater plate but one, the ground or negative is soldered to the plate, the positive has a black cable shielding and is connected to the inside of the housing cap you see it laying in - it's a real short lead so i couldn't separate them any further without detaching it.





if you plan to replace the brushes, don't bother with those commutater plates you see on egay with the brushes already mounted - unless one of the coiled springs has broken, you don't need the commutator plate - it couldn't be simpler to attach the brushes - the copper cable is simply captured under a bent down tab - to remove the existing cable, pinch under the tab with a pair of cable snips and it'll bend up, and then a small punch & hammer to recapture the new cable under that tab - the brushes by themselves are only $10 from honda, and suspect if someone has the time, they'll find em for $4 at whatever supply houses supply starter shops. I've labeled the brushes for those that have never fooled with electric motors before

Honda calls for them to be replaced when their length is less than .35" (9MM), and these were at .41" so they've got plenty of service left. In case, they're easy enough to remove - first just grab that coiled spring you see next to a brush with a pair of needle nose pliers and turn the spring like you want to tighten it (ie clockwise) and the end will simply come away from the back of the brush and the brush will slide out, then simply desolder from their solder joints.

I'll try to get the rest of this post up in a couple of days when i've got the shots of it going back together

and it was Dave4514 in the earlier thread, that confirmed his 4514 uses the same nippon denso starter part number

anyway, fwiw
 

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Discussion Starter #2
as an FYI, i ordered a starter from the first link above, and while the description on their web was a little confusing, it did appear to state it was a nippon denso (and new honda starter)

starter came in, and I don't think it's an original nippondenso starter - no nippondenso markings anywhere on it, and casting detail on the housing is slightly different - even the solenoid lacks a nippondenso decal

as i ordered it, and the engine is still on the bench, i'm going to install it even though the problem traced out to be the solenoid.

i've not got two used starters, will probably be putting em up on ebay
 
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