[ssmewing]

The Vanguard powered Ingersoll have the pump adapter bolts under the flywheel screen. This leads most people who need to separate the pump from the engine to go after the 2 set screws and take the pump out of the adapter.

I know for certain that near me it has happened 3 times. I know because I got them after the pump loosened in the adapter and the bad things that happen are: just the pump adapter gets wrecked, add the torque arm getting broke, add the hose getting wrecked, add the cooler getting hit by the rotating pump, add the hydraulic tank getting the bottom ripped off.

This one was $249 in parts. Then my time and the fact that the leaking oil creates a ton of work. The whole tractor has oil on it which attracts dirt and grass. The whole engine is filled with oil, dirt, and grass. You have to take all the engine shrouds off to clean the engine.

DO NOT EVER TAKE THE PUMP OUT OF THE ADAPTER UNLESS THE PUMP IS NO GOOD.

The set screws will back out in hours or minutes.

The set screws were very hard to turn out because they have permanent thread lock on them. Unless you do the same in a very perfect way, you will get to revisit your work with a box full of new parts.

This all applies to the other engines as well. The Vanguard is the only one where the adapter bolts are behind the flywheel screen.

 

[antiqueetc]

The Vanguard powered Ingersoll have the pump adapter bolts under the flywheel screen. This leads most people who need to separate the pump from the engine to go after the 2 set screws and take the pump out of the adapter.

I know for certain that near me it has happened 3 times. I know because I got them after the pump loosened in the adapter and the bad things that happen are: just the pump adapter gets wrecked, add the torque arm getting broke, add the hose getting wrecked, add the cooler getting hit by the rotating pump, add the hydraulic tank getting the bottom ripped off.

This one was $249 in parts. Then my time and the fact that the leaking oil creates a ton of work. The whole tractor has oil on it which attracts dirt and grass. The whole engine is filled with oil, dirt, and grass. You have to take all the engine shrouds off to clean the engine.

DO NOT EVER TAKE THE PUMP OUT OF THE ADAPTER UNLESS THE PUMP IS NO GOOD.

The set screws will back out in hours or minutes.

The set screws were very hard to turn out because they have permanent thread lock on them. Unless you do the same in a very perfect way, you will get to revisit your work with a box full of new parts.

This all applies to the other engines as well. The Vanguard is the only one where the adapter bolts are behind the flywheel screen.

Or, you can release the thread lock with a little heat, doesn't take a lot, then pull the set screws. Reinstall with red Loctite and you're good. Much faster that taking the screw and 4 adapter to flywheel bolts.

If you do take the adapter off the flywheel, don't overlook the little centering device, and be sure it's properly seating when reinstalling. they can be difficult to get seat solidly.

 

[ssmewing]

We can all do what we want.

But, it is asking for problems to take the pump off the adapter. In my experience and 2 dealers on the forums have told forum members to leave the set screws alone and remove the adapter.

 

[no2498]

some thing odd going on. they make something you can take apart. but you can't put it together again.
if you take the bolt out can you see the other side.or is there a set screw under it?

john

 

[CCMoe]

LOL, didn't remove pump or adapter but I had a crack in the tank which spewed oil all over the place.

Tanks are expensive on Ingersoll 4018's, IMO.

I have had ignition issues since getting everything back together, I'm wondering if it was from the oil bath on everything.

CCMoe

 

[ssmewing]

LOL, didn't remove pump or adapter but I had a crack in the tank which spewed oil all over the place.

Tanks are expensive on Ingersoll 4018's, IMO.

I have had ignition issues since getting everything back together, I'm wondering if it was from the oil bath on everything.

CCMoe

Did you figure out why your tank cracked?

You pretty much have to keep these tractors clean. It is a lot of work but it is a lot of money when oil leaks are left to attract dirt and grass. I always start with Kerosene for tough cooked on oil and finish with brake cleaner. Brake cleaner as in at least one can with air to help out washing the film off.

This Vanguard was just getting to where all the cooling fins covered by shrouds were plugged. If I had not taken them off and cleaned the engine, it would have been a very short life for the engine.

 

[ssmewing]

some thing odd going on. they make something you can take apart. but you can't put it together again.
if you take the bolt out can you see the other side.or is there a set screw under it?

john

Of course, you can. The question is are you skilled enough.

So, we know that there are 2 set screws on the adapter to hold it onto the shaft of the pump. Throughout the history of these forums, there have been many who have asked how do you loosen these same set screws. They are very hard to loosen because they have permanent thread lock on them.

When the manufacturer uses a permanent thread lock, should that tell you something? It should. It is not that they wanted to make it hard on you the poor owner. It is because if that permanent thread lock was not there the set screws will loosen up.

If you do get the set screws out, then you must start with a 100% clean threaded hole and screw in order for your new permanent thread locker to work to its fullest duty for the reinstallation.

As I said in the beginning, just near where I live, 3 different Ingersoll tractors with Vanguard engines have made it to me with the same exact problem and the same exact previous trip to a "mechanic". That is 3 different mechanics that failed to get the set screws to stay tight after they had loosened them.

 

[sddunt]

Very timely post my friend. I am working on my old 646 installing a new pump and your post reminded me that there is a specific torque setting for the set screws in the Lovejoy coupler.. I will also be using loktite on the setscrews.. Is there a documented torque spec for the pump adapter on the 41xx machines?

 

[ssmewing]

The torque spec would be found in the charts for common fasteners found online pretty easily. I am sure one is out there for set screws.

 

[ssmewing]

The Lovejoy couplers do not have the same vibrational forces on them. The adapter to pump shaft is directly bolted to the flywheel and crank and the pump shaft. The Lovejoy has the very nicely designed spider in the middle of the coupling.

 

[antiqueetc]

Did you figure out why your tank cracked?

You pretty much have to keep these tractors clean. It is a lot of work but it is a lot of money when oil leaks are left to attract dirt and grass. I always start with Kerosene for tough cooked on oil and finish with brake cleaner. Brake cleaner as in at least one can with air to help out washing the film off.

This Vanguard was just getting to where all the cooling fins covered by shrouds were plugged. If I had not taken them off and cleaned the engine, it would have been a very short life for the engine.

I have encountered 3 cracked tanks on 4 digit Ingersolls. One of them was my 4016. All were due to the same cause. Someone (not me!) had removed the pump adapter from the flywheel and failed to get the little centering pin lined up correctly. So, the pump was not in line with the crank and moved around as it turned. Separated the suction line connection from the tank. that little pin will not 'self center' when the bolts are tightened, It must be correctly in place first. If not, it will bind in the bore and not allow the adapter to seat fully on the flywheel.

 

[ssmewing]

The centering pin is only used in the Vanguard engines. You must like those I take it.

I have not had an issue with the centering pins. What I have seen is shaft and adapter looseness.

 

[ssmewing]

For me, and only on the Vanguard, 2 had the shaft key sheared and the sheared key joined the pump adapter. This last one I got it early. The key was good but I removed the pump by hand, it was just loose in the adapter. This last one almost tore the tank up, the suction hose was ripped.

But, that centering pin has never been out of place. They don't move at all on me. But, I have the option and I will take it for reinstalling the adapter on the engine first. It is a new adapter and set screws.

I do not use Allen wrenches for the set screws. I have 3/8" drive allen head sockets. There is no way you can use Allen wrenches and get them out or in. You can't get enough torque.

 

[antiqueetc]

The centering pin is only used in the Vanguard engines. You must like those I take it.

I have not had an issue with the centering pins. What I have seen is shaft and adapter looseness.

/the adapter looseness could well be due the pin not being properly seated when the bolts where tightened. The resulting 'wobble' seats it and voila: loose bolts.

Yeah, I'm an unabashed Vanguard fan. One of, if not the best of the OHV crop.

 

[antiqueetc]

I do not use Allen wrenches for the set screws. I have 3/8" drive allen head sockets. There is no way you can use Allen wrenches and get them out or in. You can't get enough torque.

For sure! That's one of the reasons I don't hesitate to remove the pump. A little heat, 10 seconds or so with the Oxy/acet torch and buzz them out with an impact driver, extension and allen socket.

Hit the threads with the wire wheel to remove the old locking stuff before I even take them off the driver. Ready for reinstall.

 

[ssmewing]

You would think a mechanic of any sort would realize that when it was very hard to get the set screws out that there is a reason for it.

The torque arm broke almost as soon as they got home. The mechanic bolted the arm hard to where the rubber bumper was.

And, then follow through with the same thread locker.

And, no oil anywhere near the hole or fastener.

I was looking to get a 4000 with a Vanguard for its great silky smooth and quiet performance.

And then I got a Grass Hopper with a blown Kohler Command that did not window the block or hurt the crank. Now I will be mowing with a 720K and 61" of cutting width. The engine will just be warm when I am done.

That engine blew because the cooling fins under the shrouds were tightly packed with grass and oil. The breather tube cracked open and added the oil. I have to admit it was very nice to easily get parts and the prices were pretty good on the Grass Hopper end.

 

[CCMoe]

I have encountered 3 cracked tanks on 4 digit Ingersolls. One of them was my 4016. All were due to the same cause. Someone (not me!) had removed the pump adapter from the flywheel and failed to get the little centering pin lined up correctly. So, the pump was not in line with the crank and moved around as it turned. Separated the suction line connection from the tank. that little pin will not 'self center' when the bolts are tightened, It must be correctly in place first. If not, it will bind in the bore and not allow the adapter to seat fully on the flywheel.

Did you figure out why your tank cracked?

You pretty much have to keep these tractors clean. It is a lot of work but it is a lot of money when oil leaks are left to attract dirt and grass. I always start with Kerosene for tough cooked on oil and finish with brake cleaner. Brake cleaner as in at least one can with air to help out washing the film off.

This Vanguard was just getting to where all the cooling fins covered by shrouds were plugged. If I had not taken them off and cleaned the engine, it would have been a very short life for the engine.

I'm not sure what cracked the tank. I bought it last summer, test mowed with it, started right up, test mowed, everything appeared in good shape, real clean.

I take it out to mow, about 30 minutes into it, oil is blowing everywhere. Limped it back onto the trailer and brought it home. I first thought the "J" hose was leaking. Ordered a hose before I pulled the old one off is when I discovered the crack around the outlet.

Is this where the other tanks cracked?

Ordered a new tank (ouch), put it and new hose on, filled tank and started having ignition issues. bought a new switch, installed, still had to jump starter with a screwdriver.

I don't know if oil bath is causing my issues electrically or not.

New tank has a metal sleve in outlet.

I don't know if pump has been removed prior to me owning it, it does seem to have excessive vibration, is that my sign!

My 4018 is an Onan P218 I believe.

CCMoe