[fredrosse]

I have a trailerable steamboat, weight is just over 1 long ton, and I need a tractor to maneuver it around my circuitious yard, overland to the boat building workshop behind my house. Typical single axel boat trailer, 22 feet long.

I have been using my BMW X5, 5000 pounds weight, 4 wheel drive, but the tight spaces to move the boat trailer around really needs the likes of a tractor. Steep slope has gotten the BMW in trouble when the grass is wet, as well as ruining parts of the lawn.

I bought a Case 446 tractor (16 HP), that is way too small. Had a 46 Deere Model B hand start, I think that would have been ideal, but no longer have that one.

Don't need a modern tractor nor a 3 piont hitch, just need for pulling the trailer around to the driveway for hitching to a SUV, so what would be a good, reliable, and low cost alternative in eastern PA?

 

[TUDOR]

The Case 446 was more than capable. Your Cub Cadet 126 is also more than capable

I used a MF12H (12 hp) to move my 18', 3600 lb travel trailer many years ago. It hardly noticed the load. The MF12H and the CC126 are comparable tractors with the big difference being the hydro tranny in the Massey. Much nicer for close quarters back and fill work.

 

[Upper5Percent]

Just imitate The Inclined Boat Lifts of Elblag Canal...

 

[PaulL]

The Case 446 or the Cub Cadet 126 should have enough power for the job. Do you think the Case is too small because the tires are spinning on the wet grass slope or is the gearing not low enough causing the engine to bog down? Do you have filled ag tires and wheel weights to maximize traction or are you running turfs to protect the grass?
I move a 1000 lb boat trailer on level ground with a Gravely 7.6 hp walk behind with no problem.

 

[Ingersoll444]

I guess the question is what is your lawn like? Its it hilly? Hills are really going to be the factor. Normaly the Case should have been fine, if it ran well, and there is no real hills. I used to tow mine with a old JD112 and that was about 5k lbs boat, and trailer. If its a size thing, and the case just felt too small, you could move to something like a old Ford 8N, they are not too pricy, and its a much bigger tractor then a garden tractor. Some don't have great brakes though.... so you would want to check that if you have hills. So I guess we need to ask why the Case didn't work?

 

[donmac]

How many times a yr. do you need to do this? If it's just a spring/fall deal I'd just hire someone with a decent atv. or rent one.

 

[Nouveau Redneck]

I moved a 3600 lb. wood chipper like the tree services use all over my property with my JD X500 and my property is very hilly. Your Case should be able to handle it fine as long as the rear tires have enough weight on them and the proper tread for the conditions. My X500 has HDAP tires, which are more aggressive than plain turf tires, but they only do a little more damage than turfs if they do spin.

Ruining the grass when trying to tow uphill when it's wet probably can't be avoided no matter what tow vehicle you use. If you go with a turf saver type of tire, then they will just spin on top of the wet grass and won't move the trailer, and anything aggressive enough to get good grip can tear things up when wet, not because of the grass being wet, but because the dirt under the grass is softer when it's wet. When it's dry the tires get a good grip on the grass and the roots of the grass grip the top layer of dirt, and the top layer of dirt grips the rest of the dirt and the vehicle and trailer move without damaging anything. When it's wet, either the tires don't get a grip on the grass and they just spin, which can damage the grass itself a bit, or the tires grip the grass and the roots of the grass still grip the top layer of dirt, but the top layer of dirt moves relative to the rest of the dirt. Adding enough weight to cause the tires to press the dirt down to where the top layer of dirt won't move relative to the rest of the dirt will allow the vehicle to tow the trailer up the hill, but the excess weight will likely leave ruts due to the compressed dirt. A winch, either on a tree at the top of the hill, or on the front bumper of the tow vehicle, can help a lot in wet conditions..

 

[donmac]

an x500 won't do it, I have one and reverse power is very limited! I move my boats around with it [which are much lighter] backing up any incline or over a pebble requires taking a full speed run and hoping the momentum does the job. a 4 wheeler has a lot more pulling power!

 

[Nouveau Redneck]

an x500 won't do it, I have one and reverse power is very limited! I move my boats around with it [which are much lighter] backing up any incline or over a pebble requires taking a full speed run and hoping the momentum does the job. a 4 wheeler has a lot more pulling power!

Sounds like your X500 has a problem with the transaxle, ior maybe it's the stock turf tires. My X500 with the HDAP tires, as I said, moved a 3600 lb. tow behind wood chipper, like the tree service guys use, up and down the steep hills on my property with no problem. Reverse speed is limited compared to forward speed, but reverse power should be pretty much identical to forward power.

 

[sadixon49]

I doubt a 446 Case or a CC126, or any small garden tractor, will handle it. No doubt, those tractors would handle it on level ground, but he has already posted that a 5000# 4WD vehicle is struggling with it. This guy is in full on CUT or UT class. His previous JD B would be about right. Any of the small, full size Ag tractors of the 40s through the 60s would work, JD B, IH H, Ford 8N, Allis WD, etc., he doesn't need live hydraulics, live PTO, or 3PH, but I do think a perfect vehicle would have 4WD and power steering with a front mounted ball hitch, not much more maneuverable than that.

steve

 

[Nouveau Redneck]

but he has already posted that a 5000# 4WD vehicle is struggling with it

No, he said that his 5000# 4WD vehicle is too big to maneuver in some spots and apparently has slipped on the steep slope when it was wet and torn up the grass. Proper tires and proper weight on those tires is the answer, but the weight required to get grip on wet grass is likely to leave ruts.

If he has to pull it up a steep slope when it is wet, then the best bet is a winch.

 

[TUDOR]

I doubt a 446 Case or a CC126, or any small garden tractor, will handle it. No doubt, those tractors would handle it on level ground, but he has already posted that a 5000# 4WD vehicle is struggling with it. This guy is in full on CUT or UT class.

There are the key words. GTs will do amazing things if ballasted correctly and allowed to try.

They have been used on aircraft carriers as mules to move jet fighters around the deck and hanger bay, so weight is not the issue.

They are used by their owners to skid logs out of the bush, plowing dirt all the way. There are several threads, with associated pics, about GTs hauling up to 2 tons of firewood on single and tandem axle trailers out of hilly bush lots posted on MTF, so terrain is not the issue.

Under the right circumstances, a properly equipped 2wd hydro GT will out pull a 4wd truck that weighs more than twice as much. The get-the-load-moving torque available is that great. It's not how much power the engine can make that counts, it's how much of that power can be delivered to the ground.

Why are you in doubt about the capabilities of GTs? Have you never tried to find the limits? :dunno:

 

[sadixon49]

No, he said that his 5000# 4WD vehicle is too big to maneuver in some spots and apparently has slipped on the steep slope when it was wet and torn up the grass. Proper tires and proper weight on those tires is the answer, but the weight required to get grip on wet grass is likely to leave ruts.

If he has to pull it up a steep slope when it is wet, then the best bet is a winch.

I read it differently of course, his statement, "Steep slope has gotten the BMW in trouble when the grass is wet, as well as ruining parts of the lawn," coupled with the fact that he posted this in the barn, led me to believe he was looking for a bigger tractor. I'm probably wrong though, what else is new. If I were looking for a highly maneuverable GT that could handle a steep hill I would look to a 729/749/739, 4WD+4WS is a great combination for what he wants. A 534 would also work great. Having an X304, has taught me how easy they are to back trailers up. Putting the hitch on the front of the tractor would work even better.
steve

 

[donmac]

Sounds like your X500 has a problem with the transaxle, ior maybe it's the stock turf tires. My X500 with the HDAP tires, as I said, moved a 3600 lb. tow behind wood chipper, like the tree service guys use, up and down the steep hills on my property with no problem. Reverse speed is limited compared to forward speed, but reverse power should be pretty much identical to forward power.

I'd say reverse power is 2/3rds. of forward power. I already got this answered from tuff torque and tech told me it's because of the bypass port. if yours pulls just as hard in reverse you should tell tuff torque they built one right!:hide:

 

[Nouveau Redneck]

I'd say reverse power is 2/3rds. of forward power. I already got this answered from tuff torque and tech told me it's because of the bypass port. if yours pulls just as hard in reverse you should tell tuff torque they built one right!

I never had a situation where reverse couldn't move something that forward could also move, so maybe I just haven't tried hard enough.

 

[TUDOR]

I'd say reverse power is 2/3rds. of forward power. I already got this answered from tuff torque and tech told me it's because of the bypass port. if yours pulls just as hard in reverse you should tell tuff torque they built one right!:hide:

Unless the reverse bypass is actually a relief valve set at a lower pressure than for forward, the available horsepower is reduced by a shorter throw of the hydro's swash plate and the pressure, and therefore the torque, will be the same in both directions.

 

[donmac]

I was told it's a port allowing the pump to continue moving fluid through the trans. when no pedal applied to stop creep or make it easier to stop from creeping should adjustment be necessary and it does reduce reverse power!

 

[TUDOR]

Define 'power'. Horsepower or torque.

Reduced flow at a given pressure will reduce horsepower, but not torque.

Reduced pressure at a given flow will reduce torque, as well as horsepower.

Reverse speed is generally limited by reducing flow (less angle for the swash plate in the hydro) while leaving the pressure capability the same as for forward. While this will reduce the amount of horsepower delivered to the rear wheels, it will have no effect on the torque available.

To reduce the torque requires a relief valve set at a lower pressure. While a relief valve serves a similar function to a bypass valve, it does so at pressure, whereas a bypass is basically a short circuit with only sufficient pressure to ensure flow involved.

The Tuff Torq tech was incomplete in his explanation.

 

[donmac]

I believe the port is bypassing some of the oil, reducing pressure to the hyd. motor. either way were way off topic here, The gentleman asked if he could move his 1000lb. boat around with a tractor and I answered from my experience with an x500, no - not if you need to back up an incline.
I'll start another thread for this discussion about low reverse torque. on x5 series.

 

[Ingersoll444]

Well mostly we are just guessing on the details of the tractor need at this time. Once the OP comes back, and fills in the details we are kind of spinning our wheels working out the 'what if's" It is a interesting use for a tractor, and something that I would like to hear more about his needs, but until he comes back, we are kind of in the dark.