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Discussion Starter #81
I sent him paint files of how the decals should look and they all have dimensions.

I'd hate to scratch thrower but I also hate letting it sit unused. I'll be careful. :)


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Murray hurrah
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I sent him paint files of how the decals should look and they all have dimensions.

I'd hate to scratch thrower but I also hate letting it sit unused. I'll be careful. :)


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Sounds good. I can't wait to get started on my restoration, but I can't till spring. I know I'm going to bust something and don't wanna ruin the thing before I get to use it.


Old beats new any day!!!!
 

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Toro Whirlwind Museum
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Here are the NOS wheels I installed. Unfortunately, these are not the correct wheels but they're darn close and I'd still rather have a brand new wheel that's slightly different. In case you're wondering what's different, the center ring on front side is larger than the original, and the back side has much more webbing for strength I assume. The fronts are part no. 17-4140 and the backs are 11-1329. The fronts were first used on the 1973 Toro Guardian but I can't find any mower that uses this back wheel. Since the style is identical to the front wheels, I would assume they were used on the same mowers.
I can tell you what happened here. In the parts literature, someone at Toro for whatever reason did not mention the 11-1329 wheels.

For a lot of years, the 21" push mowers used a smaller front wheel than back wheel....just like the 19" push mowers did. That front wheel was the 17-4140 and its predecessor. But, when the company started making 21" push mowers with front wheels the same diameter as the rears, all 4 wheels were still NOT the same. To a cursory glance they might seem so, but that's not the case. For those mowers, the front wheels were those 11-1329 and the rears were 17-4120. The center ring is the most prominent difference. On the 17-4120 it is more flattened out.

Here is an example. This guy is selling 4 original wheels from a model 16310 21" push mower. They were built from 1979 through 1982. He has 2 wheels in one auction and 2 wheels in another. But what he doesn't realize is that he has a front and a back in each auction, rather than a matched pair in each.

Look at the center rings closely:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Toro-Model-16310-Mower-Front-Wheels-17-4120-/281199189786?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4178c71f1a



In the Toro parts literature and on the online viewer it says for those 21" push mowers that they take 4 of the 17-4120. But that is NOT the case. On the front, they take a pair of the 11-1329.

Roger has a model 16310....I bet his has different center rings front and back.

Y, what you now have is a mower with 4 front wheels. :D

But, it's really just a technicality because the vast majority of people out there would never notice. :fing32:
 

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Discussion Starter #84
Okay, I have to ask...why on EARTH would they need to use different front and back wheels? :banghead3

So you're saying the two wheels in that picture are different?? I can't see that but I'll keep looking.

This wheel thing gives me a headache! :fing20:
 

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Murray hurrah
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Okay, I have to ask...why on EARTH would they need to use different front and back wheels? :banghead3

So you're saying the two wheels in that picture are different?? I can't see that but I'll keep looking.

This wheel thing gives me a headache! :fing20:
Exactly that. To make you bang your head on the wall. I bet when it was being sold they only kept the front wheels in stock.


Old beats new any day!!!!
 

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Murray hurrah
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If I can get the Dynamark to look even half as good as this it will be a success. Obviously self etching primer is a must, but when it comes to final painting is there a certain type of paint that would work best on steel? I am planning on using a LVLP spray gun hopefully. Will the appliance paint work with that? I know you used cans. My final plan is since it's gonna be used in snow obviously that I'm going to never wet most if not all of it.


Old beats new any day!!!!
 

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Toro Whirlwind Museum
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Okay, I have to ask...why on EARTH would they need to use different front and back wheels? :banghead3

So you're saying the two wheels in that picture are different?? I can't see that but I'll keep looking.

This wheel thing gives me a headache! :fing20:
I'm thinking it *might* have had something to do with the length of the mounting bolts and possible differences in the mounting brackets front versus back, clearance, etc. That's just a guess, but with all the mowers I have there have been some very odd differences at times. There are some of the wheel brackets that look the same at a casual glance, but when you go to mount a wheel you encounter a hole that is slightly smaller and the bolt goes on like it's threaded rather than being able to just slip through. And with the very same bolts and same era of mower sometimes you end up with extra spacing that you have to make up for with some washers, etc.

They did some really weird things.

Yes, those wheels in the photo are different. At the center, the one on the right is higher and chunkier, whereas by comparison the center of the one on the left is more flattened and spread out.
 

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Discussion Starter #89
I'm thinking it *might* have had something to do with the length of the mounting bolts and possible differences in the mounting brackets front versus back, clearance, etc. That's just a guess, but with all the mowers I have there have been some very odd differences at times. There are some of the wheel brackets that look the same at a casual glance, but when you go to mount a wheel you encounter a hole that is slightly smaller and the bolt goes on like it's threaded rather than being able to just slip through. And with the very same bolts and same era of mower sometimes you end up with extra spacing that you have to make up for with some washers, etc.

They did some really weird things.

Yes, those wheels in the photo are different. At the center, the one on the right is higher and chunkier, whereas by comparison the center of the one on the left is more flattened and spread out.
I noticed the spacing issue on these wheels. They all seem to leave about 1/32" of play that I don't recall having with the old wheels. But it appears that wheel bolt 3-2652 was used on many different mowers with different wheels. So may it's just tolerance? Or they were having problems with wheels binding?

If I can get the Dynamark to look even half as good as this it will be a success. Obviously self etching primer is a must, but when it comes to final painting is there a certain type of paint that would work best on steel? I am planning on using a LVLP spray gun hopefully. Will the appliance paint work with that? I know you used cans. My final plan is since it's gonna be used in snow obviously that I'm going to never wet most if not all of it.


Old beats new any day!!!!
I used etching primer on this magnesium deck. The paint is spray can Rustoleum but you can buy it liquid form too. But there are plenty of choices out there .The sky's the limit with paint, or actually your budget...

I wonder if the decks were manufactured in different locations so they used different dies and sizes?


Old beats new any day!!!!
AFAIK, everything was made in Minneapolis, MN.
 

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Toro Whirlwind Museum
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One thing I did find out today in working on various different mowers: wheel bolts for the back wheels differed a bit at times. One reason was the trailing shield. That steel shield attached at the wheel bolt and there was also a neoprene bushing that went with it. So, from '69 through '76 those rear wheel bolts had to be longer to allow for those items.

I will soon get into the parts diagrams and look up the numbers for the various wheel bolts.
 

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After further research, I've found that they didn't just use multiple different wheel bolts....they also changed the wheel brackets (pivot arms) at various times as well. So, if something needed replacement and someone got a part that looked correct but actually wasn't....then the 'fun' would begin. And that is some of what we have to try to correct at this late date on some of these old mowers.
 

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After reading these posts on the 16310, I wish that the Toro Repair man from Two Rivers was back home so I could pick up those two 16310 mowers. He is still in a nursing home. Hopefully he will be back soon so I can get the mowers and compare wheels. One looks almost like new. Should have helped him dig them out when he showed them to me. Al
 

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I hope he is soon able to transition to assisted living, or something. Those nursing homes are no good. I was determined to keep my dad out of them. With Diabetes and very severe mood swings that he had, there were times when I felt like I was up against the devil himself, but in the end he was able to pass on peacefully in his own home as he had always wanted to do. He did not want to be around a bunch of strangers who didn't care or worse....and I was able to prevent that from happening.

I hope this man can get out of there just as soon as possible, for his own health and safety, regardless of what turns out with the mowers either way.
 

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I talked to his brother tonight. They finally got the infection in his leg cleared up. The plan is put his artificial knee back in next week. Then if all goes well, they expect to have him back home in two to three weeks. His wife is a retired nurse so she expects to be able to handle him once his knee is back in. The problem now is that he can't walk even in a walker. It's been 3 months since all this started with an infection in his hand that came from a cut workling on an engine. But his brother thinks it could be six months before he gets back to his shop. Getting old is not any fun.

No, a nursing home is not good place to be in. My mother was 3 years in an assisted living home and it was probably the best thing that could have happened to her. They really took good care of her the 3 years she lived there. And the cost was about 1/3 of what a nursing home would charge and she got better care. She had live at home on the farm until she was 96. She died peacfully last November at age 98. Al
 

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I sure hope all goes well with the knee so he can get back home.

Sorry to hear about your mom, Al. But, 98 years is a good amount of time. My mom will be 87 in February. She had one hip replaced a little over a year and a half ago. She has been doing quite well except that just now her back has been bothering her some. Might be due to her hereditary osteoporosis which she has been treated for quite a number of years now. My wife and I are looking after her. My dad was almost 86 when he passed on. I have longevity on both sides of my family. One of my grandfather's sisters (on my dad's side) lived to 103.
 

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Murray hurrah
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I sure hope all goes well with the knee so he can get back home.

Sorry to hear about your mom, Al. But, 98 years is a good amount of time. My mom will be 87 in February. She had one hip replaced a little over a year and a half ago. She has been doing quite well except that just now her back has been bothering her some. Might be due to her hereditary osteoporosis which she has been treated for quite a number of years now. My wife and I are looking after her. My dad was almost 86 when he passed on. I have longevity on both sides of my family. One of my grandfather's sisters (on my dad's side) lived to 103.
I fully agree. Hopefully I can live well into retirement. At 24 it doesn't seem hopeful for retirement benefits (ssi) haha. Prolly me manning the sore at walmart for my retirement.


Old beats new any day!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #97
Sorry for falling off the map guys. I've been pretty busy for a couple weeks so I haven't done much with the mower. I got the decals from Nate but I haven't gotten around to putting them on yet. I'm not familiar with this type of decal so I want to do some "practice" before attempting the tough ones. I bought the kit that helps you apply the decals, just contains a couple prep fluids and a scraper. I'll show you how they turn out when everything's done. Meanwhile, here's what they look like...
 

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Discussion Starter #99
I'm not sure what they're called...they have protective covers front and back. You're supposed to secure them in place with masking tape before removing the covers. Sorry I can't explain it better...if you go to clickitandstickit.com the directions are shown with the "kit" that aids in applying the decals. But you get those instructions when you order the decals as well.
 

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Murray hurrah
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I'm not sure what they're called...they have protective covers front and back. You're supposed to secure them in place with masking tape before removing the covers. Sorry I can't explain it better...if you go to clickitandstickit.com the directions are shown with the "kit" that aids in applying the decals. But you get those instructions when you order the decals as well.
I am definitely happy with clickitandstickit.com. Great product


Old beats new any day!!!!
 
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