[wood_butcher]

I was in the process of hooking up the brush hog & left the JD idling & all of a sudden it just quit...just like you turned the key off. It was low on fuel so I thought since it was parked on the hill it may have gotten air in the fuel line so I put a full tank of diesel in it. I bled the lines and still nothing...just turns over. I checked the air cleaner for obstructions...nothing. I checked all the fuses and rebled the lines, even replaced the fuel filter...still nothing. I noticed the hose coming from the top of the fuel tank to the injector manifold was leaking right up at the engine. That's the return line. I cut off the dry rotted fuel line & reconnected solving the leak. I unhooked the fuel lines from the injector pump that lead to the injectors and turned the engine over and no fuel comes out of the pump. Shouldn't some fuel come out of there when the engine gets cranked? Seems to me it would. I reattached that line and unhooked the line leading from the filter to the pump and turned the engine over. Small amounts of fuel squirted out of the pump. That's the wrong way though...that's pumping back into the fuel supply line. That cant be right. Anyone have any other ideas? Id drag the tractor to the dealer if I could get my truck & trailer in there to get it out. What perplexes me is that no fuel comes out of the pump when I turn it over. There should be something coming out of the pump when it's turned over. I cant seem to get fuel back up to the injectors. The tractor is sitting on a hill and the return line is full of fuel because the tank is completely full. Is that causing some sort of lock or something that's not allowing the pump to pump fuel to the injectors? The fuel solenoid is working...or so I think it is...I hear it click when the key is turned on and off. Also I took out the screw on top of the pump and cranked the JD. It builds up pressure and squirts fuel out. I dont get it. I've spent two days screwing with it and am out of ideas. I might mention the tractor has 117 hours on it...so everything is practically new. I bought it in 2002.

 

[JDFANATIC]

wb,

Welcome to the forum! :Welcome1: Hopefully some of our resident mechanics will see this and chime in.

 

[JD40]

WB,
Get out your trusty manual and prime that thing.Took my 5105 a couple trys but it finally primed and started.Good Luck.
JD40

 

[jd110]

I just had a 5205 the other day that acted the same way. It had a crack in the fuel line between the tank and the filter. When you bleed it, are you getting solid stream of fuel or is it foamy? I would replace that entire hose. After you replace it, pump the primer and get all air bubbles out of the filter. Then loosen the line at the pump that comes from the filter. pump the primer until all air is out of that line. then tighten the line and pump the primer while you crank the engine. If that gets no results, then I would say something went bad in the injection pump. This is assuming your shut-off solenoid is working. Do you have a test light or voltmeter to check for 12 volts at the solenoid?

 

[JDFANATIC]

jd40 and jd110,

Thanks for your quick responses!

 

[wood_butcher]

I just had a 5205 the other day that acted the same way. It had a crack in the fuel line between the tank and the filter. When you bleed it, are you getting solid stream of fuel or is it foamy? I would replace that entire hose. After you replace it, pump the primer and get all air bubbles out of the filter. Then loosen the line at the pump that comes from the filter. pump the primer until all air is out of that line. then tighten the line and pump the primer while you crank the engine. If that gets no results, then I would say something went bad in the injection pump. This is assuming your shut-off solenoid is working. Do you have a test light or voltmeter to check for 12 volts at the solenoid?

Yep...I checked & it's getting power at the solenoid. I hear it click although that doesn't mean it WORKS. The primer on the 5105 is a joke...at least to me it is. I have never really been able to pump it and get anything to come out on the injector pump side. I will look into the possibility of a crack in the line. I replaced that hose about two years ago but it's definitely worth investigating and not something I thought of. Im dragging a mechanic over there today to look at it. I pulled it up off the hill last night onto level ground...so now at least that isn't an issue. I tried again to prime it last night and nothing. I'm suspecting it's got something to do with the injection pump or the solenoid. Ya know....solenoid is a hard word to spell!!!

 

[wood_butcher]

WB,
Get out your trusty manual and prime that thing.Took my 5105 a couple trys but it finally primed and started.Good Luck.
JD40

The first time I ran it dry I got the manual out and read up on how to prime it. Remember in school when you had those tests that said "read ALL of this before starting." Well I completely passed over #1...The tank MUST be full in order to prime the system. I worked on that sucker for hours before I realized I had to put a bit more fuel in it. When I did it primed right up and I had no problems. HA HA!!!

 

[JDFANATIC]

Glad to hear it all worked out!

 

[wood_butcher]

Glad to hear it all worked out!

Oh it hasnt yet...that was a few years ago when that incident happened. Im still screwing with this thing. It has me completely perplexed. I should have an update later today after the mechanic looks at it. He has said he thinks it's the pump or the solenoid...but to me, that makes no sense...why would either of those croak after only 117 hours?

 

[JDFANATIC]

Oh it hasnt yet...that was a few years ago when that incident happened. Im still screwing with this thing. It has me completely perplexed. I should have an update later today after the mechanic looks at it. He has said he thinks it's the pump or the solenoid...but to me, that makes no sense...why would either of those croak after only 117 hours?

Now I understand. I thought you were referencing this issue. Good luck with the fix and let us know how you make out.

 

[wood_butcher]

Bench tested the solenoid and it's NOT the solenoid. Im waiting on the JD mechanic to call me back so he can hopefully troubleshot the pump over the phone...hey...it could happen. The tractor place next door said it's nearly impossible that it would be the pump with only 117 hours on it. I'll keep u posted...

 

[JDFANATIC]

wood butcher,

Thanks for the update. Hope it's something simple. I've never heard of a pump going with that few hours. The closest is a friend of mine whose pump on his 770 went at ~ 700 hours. Our dealer said he had never seen one go that soon. Keep us updated.

 

[wood_butcher]

Drumroll please......................it's the injector pump. Talked to the mechanic at the JD dealer & after explaining what happened...the symptoms and all of that he has decided it's the pump. He said "you don't run it much do you?" "you were running it for 10 min and all of a sudden it just quit, right?" "There was a little water in the separator, right?" I said yup...exactly. He said water made it into the tank from condensation and the fact the tank was left almost empty for so long. The water then made it's way to the injector pump and sat there & rusted the pistons in the pump. He said the pistons seized and don't travel any more...even though the shaft still turns, the pistons don't. He said just from the fact that no fuel comes out of the injector lines when you crank it says the pump is shot. He said that Stanadyne pump is touchy as far as getting water in it and letting it stay in there for a while. The humidity here in NW Arkansas is really high, so I understand. So, gents, if you own a diesel...drain the water out of the separator on a regular basis. I found a place on the net I can get the pump rebuilt for $375.00. JD wants $1100.00 to rebuild it. Just from a little water...ugh.

 

[JDFANATIC]

Ugh is right! Sorry to hear that, but hopefully your woes will help others.

 

[Upper5Percent]

Ugh is right! Sorry to hear that, but hopefully your woes will help others.

The lesson here is to USE YOUR TRACTOR MORE OFTEN...

 

[wood_butcher]

The lesson here is to USE YOUR TRACTOR MORE OFTEN...

That's a lesson I can agree with. Ticks me off though. What exactly is a water separator for if it doesn't separate the water from the fuel? GRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!

 

[wood_butcher]

I feel compelled to update you all on what we're doing. We pulled the tail piece off of the pump and got to looking around in there. There is an impeller type mechanism (made of metal...not rubber) that pumps the fuel...not a piston like the JD guy said. We took it all apart & cleaned it out. There was a little evidence of rust in there but nothing to write home about. It basically boiled down to a little discoloration on the metal...but not much. We cleaned it with steel wool & put it all back together then filled the pump with diesel. We attached a hose with a cup on it to the intake side of the pump and electrified the solenoid to open it. I turned the pump by hand and got the pump to pull a little diesel into it. I kept turning it and it started to catch...like it was hanging or something. That, gents, is fuel pressure. I hooked the air ratchet up to the shaft & spun the pump and viola...it started squirting...each orifice that leads to the injectors fired fuel out of them. Now...what's wrong with it? Not a clue. Why did it quit pumping...still no clue. Is it fixed? I doubt it. What does this accomplish? It tells us that beyond a shadow of a doubt that the pump was the reason the JD quit running. That in itself is priceless. Now I know the basics of the pump and what it SHOULD do. Much like learning to work on cars, this is how I learned to work on my tractors. Just thought I'd tell you guys what had transpired.

 

[Wolf®]

wood_butcher..

something you may wanna try is take that hand primer apart..the one on top of the fuel filter...trash builds up in there and wont allow fuel to leave the fuel filter..

I just replaced the injector pump yesterday on a 5103 and couldnt get fuel to the supply line of the pump..The John Deere man told me about that pump...years from now you will find yourself taking the complete housing apart and cleaning it..I have 1200 hours on this one and had to do the entire housing...

Filter unscrews off the bottom..pump unscrews off the top...make sure you pay attention to how it comes apart...it's pretty critical...two 9/16 bolts hold that housing to the tractor...you will need to remove and plug the supply line coming from the tank...as you will be removing your shut-off valve with the housing...also remove the line going to the pump..

Once you have the housing off..remove all fittings and the inner rubber piece under where the hand pump sat...under that rubber piece you will find a ton of trash that builds up over time..it has an O-ring and is tough to get out...spray the inside areas with Carb Cleaner..wipe down and replace all of the parts..

This is the area the fuel travels to before it enters you fuel filter..so any trash that gets through your tank ( and you will have trash from the fuel getting through) collects here over the years...

It is best to clean this with every fuel filter change...or at the very least..unscrew the hand pump and clean it with every fuel filter change..

 

[JDFANATIC]

wolf,

Welcome to the forum! :Welcome1: Sounds like a good tip; thanks for posting it!

 

[Wolf®]

Thanks JDFANATIC..

I wish someone had told me about it sooner...

I'm about like wood_butcher...I'm learning as I'm going..

I now strain all of my fuel through pantyhose...the wife aint too crazy about that..but she did say for better or worse..besides..when your wife smells like a John Deere..she's easier to find when you need her..*lol*

Take care guys..I'll check back in soon..