My Tractor Forum banner

21 - 40 of 40 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
859 Posts
sorry about your luck on the wiring. let us know if you need some pictures to compare yours to.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
396 Posts
Discussion Starter #22
I went through a bunch of the wiring today. First I confirmed the solenoid still worked. Both the pull in and hold in functions are fine. Then I started going through the tests on the time delay unit. Everything is checking out now. And now the solenoid works with the old crappy battery! It will start now, although the first time I started it, I turned the key, there was a good pause, then it started turning slowly then faster and it got going. I will assume at this point I still need to replace the battery. I did find a few wiring issues which I will be straightening out. Someone at some point cut out the seat switch and wired to bypass it. At some later time, someone tried to correct this, poorly. I will be soldering the original wires back together so everything will be like it was originally. There is also some mickey mouse wiring done at the front PTO. I found this going from the alternator to the voltage control:



It looks like it got REALLY hot at some point. What I don't know is if this points to any kind of problem. I know that at idle the regulator was putting out around 14 v. The other alternator lead seems ok. My next step is getting that new battery, some wire and supplies for fixing the bad "repairs", and then cleaning connections all over.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
627 Posts
I would recommend searching for temperature compensated voltage regulator for 322/332. There are a bunch of issues around regulators on those engines and I wouldn't want you to fry a new battery with overvoltage.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
396 Posts
Discussion Starter #24
I would recommend searching for temperature compensated voltage regulator for 322/332. There are a bunch of issues around regulators on those engines and I wouldn't want you to fry a new battery with overvoltage.
I have seen some posts talking about voltage regulator issues with the 318 but not the 332 in particular. I don't have any evidence that it is overcharging at this point. The wire that was melted was from the alternator to the regulator, not to the battery.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,094 Posts
Actually the 332 is VERY common to over charge things. The wiring from the Alt likely got close to the muffler but the VR could have started shorting out as well. Take the VR off and look for any blistering on the rubber material on the back side. If any-replace. You really need to have the machine warm and full throttle to see how much it will charge for the overcharge. Mine was around 15.3 full throttle and my new batter started to boil over. My other 332 had a dead VR so I had the enjoyment of buying two of those expensive VR's. Also-get the correct wiring connectors. JD still sells them and I could get you the PN's if you would like. No sense in hacking it worse then it already was.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
396 Posts
Discussion Starter #26
Actually the 332 is VERY common to over charge things. The wiring from the Alt likely got close to the muffler but the VR could have started shorting out as well. Take the VR off and look for any blistering on the rubber material on the back side. If any-replace. You really need to have the machine warm and full throttle to see how much it will charge for the overcharge. Mine was around 15.3 full throttle and my new batter started to boil over. My other 332 had a dead VR so I had the enjoyment of buying two of those expensive VR's. Also-get the correct wiring connectors. JD still sells them and I could get you the PN's if you would like. No sense in hacking it worse then it already was.
If you have the numbers handy I'd be interested. I don't have the correct connector on the VR. It's all homemade looking. But I can wire it to the correct wire gauge easily enough.

Is the correct charge voltage at WOT listed in the manual somewhere?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,094 Posts
Alternator electrical connector tractor side AM108847 $16.61
Connector 5 pin Volt regualtor AM108849 $21.83
Connector alt side M800121 $5.45
temp sensing VR M805239 $168.35

I haven't really seen the correct voltage other then members saying 15 and over is bad. Some have reported 16. I would say 13.5-14.5 is safe. My second 332 is at 13.5 and it had a non working VR. I just installed the VR on the other one that was overcharging but haven't started it yet to check.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
396 Posts
Discussion Starter #28
All of the "customized" wiring has been returned to normal. It now starts and runs as it should, and the glow plug timing seems fine. One lead on the alternator continues to get hot however. I pulled the VR and there is some brown discoloration on a couple spots that looks like it could be from overheating. Otherwise the back is smooth.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,094 Posts
Did you do a test of full throttle while hot voltage? That may be the reason your one connection is getting hot if you VR has burn marks on it. I would replace the VR as any blistering/discoloration isn't good for the battery and I would think not good on the alt either.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
396 Posts
Discussion Starter #30 (Edited)
I did a bunch more voltage tests tonight. The battery is measuring in at 12.5 volts not running. It also measures exactly that while it is running, regardless of speed. The manual states 13.5-15V should be at battery when running after removing "surface charge".

At the regulator, the green input measures 11.4V, and following that up before the fuse gives me 11.8V. Obviously there is a voltage drop and I should probably pick up AM107421 relay kit for this. On the red wire (charge wire) off the VG, I measure nothing when I unplug the clip. Should I get a voltage here when disconnected? If so it does seem the VG is completely dead. How the tractor is running at all is beyond me, although I guess all it needs is power to crank and then to hold in the fuel solenoid. Also, I get the correct 30VAC+ on the alternator.

Similar problem was posted here http://www.weekendfreedommachines.com/discus/messages/335/80083.html although his changed when unplugging the green wire, mine doesn't seem to make a difference. My guess is the volt drop over time ended up working the VR hard and burned it out.

For VR's, there seems to be two options. The MIA881279 and the M805239 which is more expensive. Is there really any benefit to the "temp regulating" VR? There is now P/N MIU801526 which replaces M805239 apparently. Any difference between these two?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,094 Posts
I put the temp sensing on both of mine. One had an overcharge of the 15.4 or so I mentioned earlier and the other one was totally dead. I haven't started the overcharge one yet with the new VR but the other one is at 13.5. If you want I could sell my overcharge one as it works can a relay kit could possibly solve the issue. $30 shipped for it. But in my opinion with the charging issues the 332/322/330 seem to have with overcharging-I would spring for the temp sensing one. A boiled over battery kills the life of it sooner and it tends to ruin the battery support tray which is NLA from Deere (although I may be having a few made from Stainless in a week).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
396 Posts
Discussion Starter #32
I decided to just go for the temp sensing VR, but thank you for the offer of your old VR! I figure I'll just do everything right and get it all sorted out. I ordered the VR, relay, and the connector kits. At this point I have a feeling the battery will be just fine once this is all sorted out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,094 Posts
I would still do a load test on the battery. Fuel pump, fuel solinoid, glow plugs and starter all take a lot of juice. Not saying it is bad but in the colder temps you want it to start and seeing you have a blower on-I would say it does matter. I did put block heaters in both of mine as well. I do need to trouble shoot my second 332 as I may have a bad glow plug as it just doesn't start good when cold like the other-but it is 1/2 apart for a couple leaks I was fixing. Tonight maybe as I think all leaks are fixed and I can put the hood/tins, supports back on so it isn't so ugly (enough to break a mirror ugly).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
396 Posts
Discussion Starter #34
I would still do a load test on the battery. Fuel pump, fuel solinoid, glow plugs and starter all take a lot of juice. Not saying it is bad but in the colder temps you want it to start and seeing you have a blower on-I would say it does matter. I did put block heaters in both of mine as well. I do need to trouble shoot my second 332 as I may have a bad glow plug as it just doesn't start good when cold like the other-but it is 1/2 apart for a couple leaks I was fixing. Tonight maybe as I think all leaks are fixed and I can put the hood/tins, supports back on so it isn't so ugly (enough to break a mirror ugly).
At least I'm not the only one who seems to spend more time with the tractor apart than put together! :trink40: A block heater might be in the near future also, and I have a JD trickle charger I have to install sometime. Last year I kept it in my garage so it wouldn't get "too" cold.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,094 Posts
Hey-I had it running for two weeks total since the end of January. The other one hasn't had two weeks total down time but I bought it as a good runner for a lot more. For $650 on my second 332 I knew it was a project and it was more waiting on $$ then anything else. I wanted to do it so both of mine are mirror copies so if one does break down I can take my time getting parts and working on things other then just switching the implements (mower/blower are the most important). I got the idea last winter when I was adding the H3 setup to my first 332 it was down and a part was missing in the kit. While I was waiting-a large snow storm came through and I was on contract to clean my neighbors place. So with a shovel-I cleaned it. I was also on contract this summer to mow a couple places and tilled a few places. So taking the mower deck off each time to till was getting to be a pain really fast.

So-both have suspension seats, H3, rear hyd outlets, Rear fluid filled ag tires, V61 front tires, rear JD 30 hyd tiller PTO, 3 pt hitch, 430 rearends and block heaters. Those are just the add ons to each tractor (hence the wait on money). I also have two mower decks that came with each tractor that both work (50 and replacement 48). And if the blower breaks down-in a pinch I have a rear blade and the 44 loader to still clear minor snow-even if it is slow going. Now-I bought a 420 just for the cozy cab. It has a rear PTO running an alternator that I will be converting to my PTO's and the can has 3 outside lights, strob light, fan, electric heater and electric wiper in the front along with an interior light. I thought about adding a radio but I will likely just use my radio ear muffs. I am also considering adding the electric shoot control for top angle so then I really have no reason to get out of the cab. Heck-at that rate maybe someday a backup camera and then I don't even need to turn around to look. I am looking at options for seats with armrests.

I like to tinker-I just don't like the cost. Winters project is getting my fathers 430 first year running again without leaks. He bought a few years ago and the rear leaks REALLY badly he said and they couldn't get it to start. I told him if he buys parts-I will fix. He wants to plow with my brother and I. I think I will be puting my 540 rear pto on there just for the heck of it (came on the 1800 utility vehicle but bolts right on-rare).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,094 Posts
I haven't had it in during the winter yet but I had to use the dual brakes to stop one wheel from spinning last winter so I think it will help. I have used it a few times tilling where one wheel would spine and almost ever time I mow the ditch. The two speed-low you never run out of power and high is great for transport and mowing. Shifting is kind of hard. I find it easier to shift to the right of the tractor off the machine as the angle is too hard on the tractor. It is really too bad this wasn't and OEM option as the actual diff bolts in. The linkage needs to be bent/cut but it is great. They could have modified the frame enough to make the linkages also cross over from the factory as the H3 and 430 rearend really make it a nice tractor. The 400 series can be a little big for some. That and I get to use all the 318 equipment. The 430 needs to use mostly 430 equip and the 420 mostly 420.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
2018 update: For all you cheapskates like me who arrive here trying to save $70. :tango_face_grin:

The 3 electrolytic caps in my module were dried up, and the legs were broken off 2 of them. Unfortunately, the capacitor markings came off with the goop they poured on the components to abate vibration. I had some 47uf/25v caps on hand and tried those. Also the relay spring was rusted and broken (This would possibly make the relay float/stay on and surreptitiously could burn out the plugs, or even start a fire!!!). I used a spring from some random small relay I had laying in my spare parts box.

Some notes:

1) The relay now comes on at room temp for about ~10 seconds (vs 8sec specified in manual?).
2) Freezing the thermistor keeps the relay on for about ~25 seconds.
3) Unlike the picture posted higher up, almost ALL the components on my module were covered in black rubberized goop. This appears to be for vibration resistance, not moisture as each component was not completely covered.
4) Getting all that goop off without damaging anything is a PITA. I recommend an X-acto knife, a dental pick, magnifier and a good pair of tweezers.
5) it would likely be beneficial to somehow seal up the module when reassembling to avoid rust inside.

So the results are pretty close to what the manual specifies.
Note - I Ohmed out the capacitor legs and my best guess was the negative legs seems to go to the outside of the board on all caps. I must have guessed right because I didn't get any firecrackers on power up.

I hope this helps someone.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
396 Posts
Discussion Starter #39
2018 update: For all you cheapskates like me who arrive here trying to save $70. :tango_face_grin:

The 3 electrolytic caps in my module were dried up, and the legs were broken off 2 of them. Unfortunately, the capacitor markings came off with the goop they poured on the components to abate vibration. I had some 47uf/25v caps on hand and tried those. Also the relay spring was rusted and broken (This would possibly make the relay float/stay on and surreptitiously could burn out the plugs, or even start a fire!!!). I used a spring from some random small relay I had laying in my spare parts box.

Some notes:

1) The relay now comes on at room temp for about ~10 seconds (vs 8sec specified in manual?).
2) Freezing the thermistor keeps the relay on for about ~25 seconds.
3) Unlike the picture posted higher up, almost ALL the components on my module were covered in black rubberized goop. This appears to be for vibration resistance, not moisture as each component was not completely covered.
4) Getting all that goop off without damaging anything is a PITA. I recommend an X-acto knife, a dental pick, magnifier and a good pair of tweezers.
5) it would likely be beneficial to somehow seal up the module when reassembling to avoid rust inside.

So the results are pretty close to what the manual specifies.
Note - I Ohmed out the capacitor legs and my best guess was the negative legs seems to go to the outside of the board on all caps. I must have guessed right because I didn't get any firecrackers on power up.

I hope this helps someone.
I just noticed this, thanks for the info! I might end up troubleshooting mine again as it stays on a bit longer than needed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
396 Posts
Discussion Starter #40
I ended up replacing the three caps because the module kept them on. Details of what led to that are in my other thread. 47uf 50v caps I had handy with the minus lead outwards on the board. This gave me timing similar to lanmanager. The caps that came out were 47uf 25v if someone wanted an exact match.
 
21 - 40 of 40 Posts
Top