You need to rebuild or replace the valve body. Its cheap to do but tedious or i have one.
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JD 332 float position troubles
Member gas_sux had made this post almost a year ago:
So this morning I was out blowing snow with the 332, and 47 blower... I noticed something strange happening. The blower obviously has both hydraulic up/down, plus hydraulic spout rotation.. So as I'm in motion and blowing snow, I often like to rotate the spout to a different area. Well, today as I was doing this, everytime I would grab the outside lever and rotate either right or left, the tractor would apply down pressure as if I was pushing forward on the other lever. The lever wasn't moving at all when this was happening, and no I wasn't bumping it either. As long as I was using the outside lever, either direction, the tractor would apply full down pressure.. Instantly when I let go of the lever, it'd go right back to float like it was.. Even though the lever was in float the whole time.. Any ideas here?? I'm stumped because to the best of my knowledge, my 332 and 318 both have seperate hydraulic spools.. Therefore, I dont see how the 2 spools could interfere with each other http://www.mytractorforum.com/12-john-deere-forum/930962-jd-332-odd-hydraulic-symptom-going.html
I am experiencing 100% of the symptoms he described. He didn't state what model of 47 blower he has, but I have a 47 blower on a quick hitch.
The thread he started didn't have much to say and there was never a follow up.
My chute turns freely but every time I use the outside lever to rotate the spout it applies down pressure in the float mode.
Anyone have information on this?
So this morning I was out blowing snow with the 332, and 47 blower... I noticed something strange happening. The blower obviously has both hydraulic up/down, plus hydraulic spout rotation.. So as I'm in motion and blowing snow, I often like to rotate the spout to a different area. Well, today as I was doing this, everytime I would grab the outside lever and rotate either right or left, the tractor would apply down pressure as if I was pushing forward on the other lever. The lever wasn't moving at all when this was happening, and no I wasn't bumping it either. As long as I was using the outside lever, either direction, the tractor would apply full down pressure.. Instantly when I let go of the lever, it'd go right back to float like it was.. Even though the lever was in float the whole time.. Any ideas here?? I'm stumped because to the best of my knowledge, my 332 and 318 both have seperate hydraulic spools.. Therefore, I dont see how the 2 spools could interfere with each other http://www.mytractorforum.com/12-john-deere-forum/930962-jd-332-odd-hydraulic-symptom-going.html
I am experiencing 100% of the symptoms he described. He didn't state what model of 47 blower he has, but I have a 47 blower on a quick hitch.
The thread he started didn't have much to say and there was never a follow up.
My chute turns freely but every time I use the outside lever to rotate the spout it applies down pressure in the float mode.
Anyone have information on this?
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Where can I get the parts? I removed and rebuilt the steering valve. Nothing can be as bad as that!You need to rebuild or replace the valve body. Its cheap to do but tedious or i have one.
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More than likely Mother Deere. I feel ya on that steering valve thats the first thing on the list for my grandads 318 thats going to suck.Where can I get the parts? I removed and rebuilt the steering valve. Nothing can be as bad as that!
JD parts shows the seal kit as NLA.More than likely Mother Deere. I feel ya on that steering valve thats the first thing on the list for my grandads 318 thats going to suck.Where can I get the parts? I removed and rebuilt the steering valve. Nothing can be as bad as that!
Too bad you're in Canada I know where quite a few valves are. Check with a local hydraulic shop they may be able to help you.
The float position connects both cylinder ports and the through port internal to the valve set that feeds the second spool before continuing on to tank. The result is that the float valve spool gets pressurized when you turn the chute and the area differential of the piston in the lift cylinder takes over, extending the cylinder with about 17% more force than the force acting to retract the cylinder.
It's back feeding the float spool with the pressure required to turn the chute. Worst case scenario, if it takes a full 1000 psi to turn the chute (unlikely), there will be something around 500 lb of extending force applied by the cylinder until the chute control is centered. That 500 lb of force is mitigated by the leverage ratio that the cylinder has to work with to provide the down force, probably about 3:1, or 170 lb at the blower shoes.
Check the chute for how much turning effort is required. Hydraulics is strong enough to overcome a lot of resistance for that task, and there shouldn't really be much resistance. The pressure comes from overcoming that resistance.
No valve rebuild required. Maybe some clean up of the chute turning mechanism, though.
If everything is in spec, there should be little pressure and the down pressure effect should be noticeable only if you are specifically watching for it.
It's back feeding the float spool with the pressure required to turn the chute. Worst case scenario, if it takes a full 1000 psi to turn the chute (unlikely), there will be something around 500 lb of extending force applied by the cylinder until the chute control is centered. That 500 lb of force is mitigated by the leverage ratio that the cylinder has to work with to provide the down force, probably about 3:1, or 170 lb at the blower shoes.
Check the chute for how much turning effort is required. Hydraulics is strong enough to overcome a lot of resistance for that task, and there shouldn't really be much resistance. The pressure comes from overcoming that resistance.
No valve rebuild required. Maybe some clean up of the chute turning mechanism, though.
If everything is in spec, there should be little pressure and the down pressure effect should be noticeable only if you are specifically watching for it.
I had just rebuilt my 47 blower 100%. It creates enough down pressure on the quick hitch that it will lift the front tires off the ground... I will check out the mechanism to see if I over tightened the slide.The float position connects both cylinder ports and the through port internal to the valve set that feeds the second spool before continuing on to tank. The result is that the float valve spool gets pressurized when you turn the chute and the area differential of the piston in the lift cylinder takes over, extending the cylinder with about 17% more force than the force acting to retract the cylinder.
It's back feeding the float spool with the pressure required to turn the chute. Worst case scenario, if it takes a full 1000 psi to turn the chute (unlikely), there will be something around 500 lb of extending force applied by the cylinder until the chute control is centered. That 500 lb of force is mitigated by the leverage ratio that the cylinder has to work with to provide the down force, probably about 3:1, or 170 lb at the blower shoes.
Check the chute for how much turning effort is required. Hydraulics is strong enough to overcome a lot of resistance for that task, and there shouldn't really be much resistance. The pressure comes from overcoming that resistance.
No valve rebuild required. Maybe some clean up of the chute turning mechanism, though.
If everything is in spec, there should be little pressure and the down pressure effect should be noticeable only if you are specifically watching for it.
That is interesting. On a side note, I believe the valve rebuild consists of cleaning an O-rings...
I rebuilt valve on 420, bought new o rings and snap rings and small jar of Vaseline, never leaked after that and it worked,
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I'm sure you double checked hoses to make sure they are in correct place on tractor.
Tudor that was a short and sweet explanation. Learned a little and removed some of the fog in my hydraulics system knowledge. :thanku:The float position connects both cylinder ports and the through port internal to the valve set that feeds the second spool before continuing on to tank. The result is that the float valve spool gets pressurized when you turn the chute and the area differential of the piston in the lift cylinder takes over, extending the cylinder with about 17% more force than the force acting to retract the cylinder.
It's back feeding the float spool with the pressure required to turn the chute. Worst case scenario, if it takes a full 1000 psi to turn the chute (unlikely), there will be something around 500 lb of extending force applied by the cylinder until the chute control is centered. That 500 lb of force is mitigated by the leverage ratio that the cylinder has to work with to provide the down force, probably about 3:1, or 170 lb at the blower shoes.
Check the chute for how much turning effort is required. Hydraulics is strong enough to overcome a lot of resistance for that task, and there shouldn't really be much resistance. The pressure comes from overcoming that resistance.
No valve rebuild required. Maybe some clean up of the chute turning mechanism, though.
If everything is in spec, there should be little pressure and the down pressure effect should be noticeable only if you are specifically watching for it.
So because the resistance in the chute mechanism was greater than spec, it caused the reaction of a backfeed to the next lowest resistance, which was the float valve. Scary when I understand just a little bit of this stuff. :tango_face_grin:
You're welcome.Tudor that was a short and sweet explanation. Learned a little and removed some of the fog in my hydraulics system knowledge. :thanku:
So because the resistance in the chute mechanism was greater than spec, it caused the reaction of a backfeed to the next lowest resistance, which was the float valve. Scary when I understand just a little bit of this stuff. :tango_face_grin:
Shorter explanation: Everything upstream (back to the pump) is subject to the same pressure as required for the work in progress. The chute control spool is the second spool of the valve set to receive fluid.
In most applications, the float spool is the first to receive fluid.
Is there any benefit to having the float spool be the first? A reason why JD did it this way?You're welcome.
Shorter explanation: Everything upstream (back to the pump) is subject to the same pressure as required for the work in progress. The chute control spool is the second spool of the valve set to receive fluid.
In most applications, the float spool is the first to receive fluid.
On my 445 i would be running with a 54blade angled in float, then straigten it just before hitting the pile and never had the lift do anything funny. That way more load then any chute rotator. I also dont have issues curling my loader while still in float.
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I don't think that JD has anything to do with it. It's universal. it's the same idea as jumping in a car and finding the gas pedal positioned for your right foot, regardless of where in the world the car originated, or which side of the road it is driven on.Is there any benefit to having the float spool be the first? A reason why JD did it this way?
As far as I know, it's because loader spool valve sets have the arm lift spool on the left when the work ports are on top, regardless of which side of the tractor they are on. Since the arms are what needs to float, and the supply port from the pump is on the left in that configuration, it follows that the float spool is first.
My MF1655 uses the same valve set on its right fender as what is on left side of two of my loaders. Even though the valve set is mounted backwards, the supply port is on the left, and the left most spool is for floating an implement. My SCUT has the joystick on the right side, but again, the supply port and the float spool are on the left side of the valve body.
Conformity and consistency are the two words that come to mind. It helps the operator switch from one machine to another when the controls work the same, and it helps the mechanic track down issues with the hydraulics when the basic circuit is the same for all machines.
Thanks Tudor..............that was my mistake........misunderstood your earlier statement...........I will be looking at valve sets closer now.I don't think that JD has anything to do with it. It's universal. it's the same idea as jumping in a car and finding the gas pedal positioned for your right foot, regardless of where in the world the car originated, or which side of the road it is driven on.
As far as I know, it's because loader spool valve sets have the arm lift spool on the left when the work ports are on top, regardless of which side of the tractor they are on. Since the arms are what needs to float, and the supply port from the pump is on the left in that configuration, it follows that the float spool is first.
My MF1655 uses the same valve set on its right fender as what is on left side of two of my loaders. Even though the valve set is mounted backwards, the supply port is on the left, and the left most spool is for floating an implement. My SCUT has the joystick on the right side, but again, the supply port and the float spool are on the left side of the valve body.
Conformity and consistency are the two words that come to mind. It helps the operator switch from one machine to another when the controls work the same, and it helps the mechanic track down issues with the hydraulics when the basic circuit is the same for all machines.
If you think hard about it, half the blade wants to swing to the right due to the snow load on in it, The other half has an equal load of snow trying to swing the blade to the left.On my 445 i would be running with a 54blade angled in float, then straigten it just before hitting the pile and never had the lift do anything funny. That way more load then any chute rotator. I also dont have issues curling my loader while still in float.
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The cylinder just applies enough force to tip the balance in favour of one or the other.
Even if the blade is only loaded on one side, It doesn't take a lot of force to change the angle. I learned this using a 30" steel snow scraper clearing driveways when I was 10 years old, and a 36" steel scraper when clearing the local outdoor rink at the same tender age.
The force that creats plow steering is in play. When plowing even fully loaded snow moves leading edge to trailing edge also increasing load on the trailing edge.If you think hard about it, half the blade wants to swing to the right due to the snow load on in it, The other half has an equal load of snow trying to swing the blade to the left.
The cylinder just applies enough force to tip the balance in favour of one or the other.
Even if the blade is only loaded on one side, It doesn't take a lot of force to change the angle. I learned this using a 30" steel snow scraper clearing driveways when I was 10 years old, and a 36" steel scraper when clearing the local outdoor rink at the same tender age.
I also played hockey and maintained the rink. I alway adjusted my position to balance the load with a scraper and snow coming down.
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The sideways thrust acts through the angle pivot, not the cylinder. It may vary with the depth of snow at different points along the blade, but it will still act at all points along the blade. The leading half is not that much less as you well know from clearing the ice. We all kept the snow off the leading tip and plowed to the inside. The deeper the snow, the narrower the cut to get it to flow off the inside of the blade, but even a 70 lb kid could maintain the angle with only half the blade pushing 6" of partly cloudy to the inside.
A 70 lb child is no match for a hydraulic cylinder that can push over 1600 lb when it comes to angling a blade, assuming a 1.5" bore cylinder.
A 70 lb child is no match for a hydraulic cylinder that can push over 1600 lb when it comes to angling a blade, assuming a 1.5" bore cylinder.
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