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Discussion Starter · #81 ·
for the record

In prep for my visit with the mechanic I removed the belly screen and cleaned and primed it and put it away then decided I would replace the breaker. I had cleaned it and saw nothing last week so I went in through the access door on the pedestal since it was off, the one near the brake. Last time seen it was with tray out. I got a whole different view this time. The left breaker terminal the one away from the engine was clean as a whistle. The 10/32 terminal near the engine was welded to the connector or vice versa and I mean a solid mass. The battery was in so I could not see but I feel it was the terminal direct from the battery. Playing tug of war was not going to happen with the old wire so I pulled the terminal out of the breaker body far enough so I could cut it off with a dremel cut wheel and then drilled out the post hoping to just drill the center of the connector out. I got fairly close and it is put back together, I did use a washer and lock washer because of the connector to allow me to get it tight without much torque. I ran out of time so I don't know if it had any positive effect. Since it was a solid mass I feel the connection was likely good, so other than good maintenance not expecting it to start

So that finding is a good reason to check that breaker closely. there was no corrosion so if that is all you are looking for that might be all you will notice, as in my case
 

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Discussion Starter · #82 · (Edited)
The big day was today and it looks like it is not the starter. Not for sure.

He had trouble with the safety, brake and he bypassed it, I ordered one. Still no juice going to starter. He checked the starter improvement and it was not getting fire. So he says from the 20amp fuse the purple wire is missing the fire. diagram shows the A1TDC Module is not getting fire to it either. What and where is this module plus where could the problem be there? where should we look to find it the fire source?

he checked all the wiring, double checked the connectors and cleaned them, changed out the ignition switch, he double checked my work on the breaker and he put on a new connector rather than use the one I drilled out and he checked its function. there is a black box i remember it was labeled something like "TIME DELAY CONTROL " under the battery, no fire going in or coming out which makes sense if none is going in.

so if we can figure out why no fire is going down the purple wire to the improvement kit and no fire is making it to the starter.. starter no longer clicks

He wants the fuel pump wired straight to battery until he trouble shoots the no start because when he pulled the jumper out of the 20amp fuse and the 20 amp was straight into the fuse holder the lights on the dash came back on. while it was put straight in he went back over the wiring and still found no fire. everytime he completed checking a connector for instance for fire he would touch the battery and make the light glow. he did that at the completion of each step which would also begin a new test of whatever. this guy left no stone unturned

so no fire to the A1TDC Module.

again thanks for any help you might be able to provide. i hope I was clear if not I will try harder
 

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There is a safety on the hydro forward/ reverse handle,have you checked that one,if the pto is pulled out it won’t start,maybe there is something there
 

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Discussion Starter · #84 · (Edited)
There is a safety on the hydro forward/ reverse handle,have you checked that one,if the pto is pulled out it won’t start,maybe there is something there
Yes he checked that and handled it. I had trouble hearing sometimes and what he said I am not sure other than it was working or he jumped it.

We need the info in my post he checked everything and every wire and safety and the pto switch. We need to know about the mentioned modules and why it might not be getting fire. Again it's not a bad wire or a bad connection he cleaned about 20 with emery board. He wonders if it is something he did not see. I can say he had a method for trouble shooting and it appeared thorough.

But thanks
 

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Do you have the schematic?
So he says from the 20amp fuse the purple wire is missing the fire. diagram shows the A1TDC Module is not getting fire to it either.
The schematic I found on greentractortalk.com shows two 20A fuses. One has a red wire, the other one has a pink wire. The pink wire goes to pin #3 of the TDM. There it connects to a purple wire. That purple wire goes to the PTO switch. When the PTO switch is OFF, the other purple wire gets the 12V. That goes to a jumper. Then the transmission neutral switch. When the transmission is in neutral, the power continues on to the brake switch. When the brake is on, power goes back to the key switch (different pole). When the key goes all the way to start, it completes the circuit to the purple wire that goes to the starter improvement kit, which then finally connects to the solenoid. The solenoid makes the connection directly from the battery to the starter motor.

With the key in the on position, start at the pink wire at the key switch. It should have 12V (battery voltage) to ground. Measure the actual voltage with a decent meter to a tenth of a volt. So, say 12.3V not "has fire". Continue measuring each point down the path to see where the voltage drops or is completely missing.
 

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Gassed, Print out the wiring diagram you have from post #76. Because you have the starter improvement kit, yours will be slightly different. The 700 purple wire from ignition switch, S1, will go to improvement contacts and improvement contacts will then go to starter solenoid... EXACTLY as Frogmore describes... and TDCM is NOT used in cranking engine, firing yes, but cranking no. Bob
 

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Discussion Starter · #87 ·
i just read that the time delay control is controlled by the 3 amp fuse. we never paid that fuse any mind because we though the start circuit was controlled by the 20amp. not if the TDC is off that 3amp fuse. I will text him tomorrow. this is interesting. not shown on diagram i am thinking that A1TDC is the time control module
Do you have the schematic?

The schematic I found on greentractortalk.com shows two 20A fuses. One has a red wire, the other one has a pink wire. The pink wire goes to pin #3 of the TDM. There it connects to a purple wire. That purple wire goes to the PTO switch. When the PTO switch is OFF, the other purple wire gets the 12V. That goes to a jumper. Then the transmission neutral switch. When the transmission is in neutral, the power continues on to the brake switch. When the brake is on, power goes back to the key switch (different pole). When the key goes all the way to start, it completes the circuit to the purple wire that goes to the starter improvement kit, which then finally connects to the solenoid. The solenoid makes the connection directly from the battery to the starter motor.

With the key in the on position, start at the pink wire at the key switch. It should have 12V (battery voltage) to ground. Measure the actual voltage with a decent meter to a tenth of a volt. So, say 12.3V not "has fire". Continue measuring each point down the path to see where the voltage drops or is completely missing.
I printed this out. I gotta wait two weeks. Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #88 ·
Gassed, Print out the wiring diagram you have from post #76. Because you have the starter improvement kit, yours will be slightly different. The 700 purple wire from ignition switch, S1, will go to improvement contacts and improvement contacts will then go to starter solenoid... EXACTLY as Frogmore describes... and TDCM is NOT used in cranking engine, firing yes, but cranking no. Bob
Thanks, I had no idea of the TDC role. It came up as he was chasing fire. I got the actual manual for this tractor. I forgot I had it. The diagram above has 9 pins mine has 8. There is a 20 amp and a 3amp fuse. If we had known the fire on TDC came from the 3amp maybe when he checked the pins he could have found a blown fuse. He was using the above diagram and following it except for the 9th pin which mine does not have. But it does have all the other things frogmore described or a jumper. i am putting everything back like the safety switches. i ordered the other two today when i picked up the brake switch and when it runs i will ask him to install those so it runs when i leave and i can move on to other things. We might should have pulled the pan and checked the fire at the jumper on the missing seat switch and that will make sense when you look at my pic. I printed and mailed him the tractors troubleshooting guide, with frogmores direction and those step by steps that is provided in that manual he should find it quick now.

again he had that diagram in his hand, tomorrow he will have the correct diagram and troubleshooting for each switch it shows and its behavior. like whether the particular switch allows it to crank or not and what to do if a certain condition exists. i understood some of it he will understand it all.

waiting two weeks is going to drive me mad. ;-)

thanks
Font Material property Gas Publication Book
 

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Guessed earlier -- had electrical, wiring issues. Some have referred to the Time Delay Control Module [TDCM] as the "safety brain".
 

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Discussion Starter · #90 ·
Guessed earlier -- had electrical, wiring issues. Some have referred to the Time Delay Control Module [TDCM] as the "safety brain".
It was a bumpy ride home that day I did a poor job of strapping it in. I have custom chains now. I know that did it in. Safety brain is in line with the way it's nestled in the wiring harness. Good to know where the evil spirit emanates
thanks
 
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