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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hello All,

I've had this 310A for 3 or 4 years now. It's been a great machine. In the last year I've been having times where it would start shutting down. Starts right back up, shuts down. Usually I checked fuel flow from the tank. Once I disconnected the fuel line from the lift pump and blew back into the tank. That fixed it for a good while. I assumed the screen in the tank got dirty and blowing on it cleaned it off.

I serviced it last year... fluids except cooling system, all new filters.

2700 hrs. total on the machine.

I was beginning to see wetness under the front of the tractor when it sat. I figured it was a leaking fuel line. I procrastinated. I was taking a stump out last weekend and it began to shut down on me again. Fuel dripping pretty bad under the front.

Closer look revealed a leaking fuel tank. I was able to run it over to the front of my garage and proceeded to tackle the tank leak. I assumed low fuel level and leaking tank caused the shutting down.

It was a bit of a job getting it out. I had to pull the radiator. That gave me a chance to do a good cooling system flush. The radiator was pretty messy. Took a lot of flushing before I got clear water running through it.

The tank bolts were hard to get out, especially the two bottom ones due to the years. Anyway.. got the tank out from behind the big grill mount monstrosity. I replaced all of the old bolts with new.

When I dumped the remaining fuel from the tank I was surprised at how much was still in there... well stuff was still in there. It looks like the fuel tube must extend upward a couple of inches or so. There was at least a pint or more of water in there and some fuel along with the rust. I rinsed the tank out with diesel until it kept coming out clean.

The tank had about a dozen pin hole leaks. I prepped it real well, removed all of the rust, cleaned with alcohol and applied professional two part epoxy tank repair with fiberglass. I had to use four kits to get all the holes. Cost me about $50. On top of that I painted most of the tank with a small can of Por-15 I had handy. I saw on line refurbished tanks go for $600 and new ones over $1000.

Put it all back together. New fuel line from the tank to the lift pump. Checked flow... good.

I should have changed the fuel filter at this time but I figured it hardly had any hrs on it so it should still be good.

I flushed out the block of old coolant by disconnecting the lower coolant heater hose off the side of the block. It drained than I shoved a garden hose against the end of that line until water came out clear out the big lower rad hose up front. Finished all that up.

Without bleeding the fuel lines she started right up and ran fine. I let it run to get warm so I could add water to the radiator. It took a few more quarts..... 12 quarts cooling capacity, 6 quarts coolant.

After about 10 minutes it started running rough and shut down. I restarted and it ran a shorter time and shut down again.

Next day I bought a new fuel filter. When I removed the old fuel filter the glass bowl had about 1/8" thick of some black mush in it. No water. I figured the fuel filter was plugged and this would fix it.

No dice. After replacing the fuel filter it only starts... runs a little just fine, I see a puff of white smoke and it shuts down.

Lift pump seems to be working fine. I am able to use the hand bleeder lever. I get resistance and I get fuel pushing when I pump it. I bled everything. I removed the screen unit from the IP. It looked to be clean. I rinsed it and blew it out. Seemed clean that the little spring valve on the bottom part was free and movable.

Any idea what the next step I should take in trouble shooting?

Thanks for any help.

Mike

Garnet Valley Pa.

Here's a pic and a link to more pictures....
MORE PICTURES
 

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This isn't going to help, i've always heard that white smoke equaled water, could it be a gasket in the block?

Ronnie
 

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Discussion Starter #3
This isn't going to help, i've always heard that white smoke equaled water, could it be a gasket in the block?

Ronnie
I hope not.
 

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The white smoke is an indication of starvation either air into system or a fuel blockage. The fact that is starts and runs would indicate that the injection pump and injectors are probably fine.

When it begins to shut down; can you 'nurse' the throttle and keep it running or does it still just die down and quit? No response to the throttle movement would eliminate any mechanical malfunction and point again to starvation in the fuel delivery to the injection pump. Check for another filter - usually a primary then a secondary filter and some pumps incorporate a final screen in the fitting going into the injection pump. Make sure that line hoses have not deteriorated and cracked near a fitting.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
The white smoke is an indication of starvation either air into system or a fuel blockage. The fact that is starts and runs would indicate that the injection pump and injectors are probably fine.

When it begins to shut down; can you 'nurse' the throttle and keep it running or does it still just die down and quit? No response to the throttle movement would eliminate any mechanical malfunction and point again to starvation in the fuel delivery to the injection pump. Check for another filter - usually a primary then a secondary filter and some pumps incorporate a final screen in the fitting going into the injection pump. Make sure that line hoses have not deteriorated and cracked near a fitting.
The throttle has absolutely no effect.

It's a simple system.

Fuel tank... outlet screen.... good flow out of the tank.
That goes to the cam operated lift pump.
The lever has resistance and pumps. I think that means the pump is working but I'm wondering if a bad lift pump might be introducing air through a weakening diaphragm?

From there is a steel line that goes around the back of the engine to the IP.

Fuel is coming out when I crack that fitting and pump the primer.

Somebody said this on another forum...

"take the return line off again and remove the fitting on top the pump.see if she will start.if so, the governor ring in the pump has come apart and stopped up the return line,time for a new governor ring"
 

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Then your pump and its internal governor assembly are fine....

Check over the delivery. Look at the primary fuel filter gasket - the way it is mounted, it may be about as easy to remove it, turn it upside down and check the rubber ring gasket for the canister - those are a known leak if cracked or twisted. Check the bleeder copper (or aluminum) gaskets.

Manually pump up some pressure with the lift pump and check for leaks.

Also, as the engine begins to die down, give the lift pump a few flicks and check the response of the engine.....If there is already air in the system, it will continue to die out, so air is getting into the system before the lift pump.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Then your pump and its internal governor assembly are fine....

Check over the delivery. Look at the primary fuel filter gasket - the way it is mounted, it may be about as easy to remove it, turn it upside down and check the rubber ring gasket for the canister - those are a known leak if cracked or twisted. Check the bleeder copper (or aluminum) gaskets.

Manually pump up some pressure with the lift pump and check for leaks.

Also, as the engine begins to die down, give the lift pump a few flicks and check the response of the engine.....If there is already air in the system, it will continue to die out, so air is getting into the system before the lift pump.

Will do.... later this evening. Looks like it's probably a simple fix. Just have to locate. The gaskets on the fuel filter can be a bugger. The new filter came with all gaskets and o-rings. I replaced the o-ring on the bleeder and the o-ring on the filter bolt. The filter came with 3 large rubber ring but I only used 2. Not sure why they gave me three.
 

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The throttle has absolutely no effect.

It's a simple system.

Fuel tank... outlet screen.... good flow out of the tank.
That goes to the cam operated lift pump.
The lever has resistance and pumps. I think that means the pump is working but I'm wondering if a bad lift pump might be introducing air through a weakening diaphragm?

From there is a steel line that goes around the back of the engine to the IP.

Fuel is coming out when I crack that fitting and pump the primer.

Somebody said this on another forum...

"take the return line off again and remove the fitting on top the pump.see if she will start.if so, the governor ring in the pump has come apart and stopped up the return line,time for a new governor ring"
A stopped up return would load the engine, that would be black smoke. The governor is a steady state mechanism so that any throttle movement would change the fuel delivery volume over riding the governor assembly position - whether the ring is present, good or bad. The governor begins to control the fuel delivery as soon as the engine is started - not ten minutes later.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Check for rust pitted steel lines - pin holes sucking air. (before the lift pump that is...)
There is a short bent steel line that snakes from the lift pump, around the oil filter and forward up to about fan. From there it's all new rubber to the tank. I'll look at that line. It does rub against things.

You can see it in this shot... lift pump is behind the oil filter. The line rises up from there and goes behind the oil filter... than forward a few inches at which point the rubber line attaches.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Came home from work but can't get messy, we're going out to dinner.

I disconnected the return line from the top of the IP.

It started and kept running. After about 30 seconds or so it began to slow. I put my finger over the hole in the IP and it came back to life. If I kept my finger there it would slow down. When I reconnected the line it went back to it's old ways. Start than stop. Fuel was coming OUT of the return fitting on the IP while it was running. Almost nothing coming out of the end of the disconnected return line.
 

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Let's go in another direction for a tiny bit- -

This engines' radiator - did you take a sniff of the liquid in it? Did it smell or appear to be diesel oily?

I see something in this last photo - at the head gasket.

Pull the valve cover and do a break-away torque test on a few head bolts at the rear of the engine. (you can do a pull torque test too but don't 'look' too far ahead of rated torque) The breakaway torque should not be more than about 40% above the head bolt torque specification for the engine. (that-is; with a known assembly technique such as with dry and clean threads on the bolt and in the block such as factory assembly) (An automotive torque wrench will not do). You may find under torqued head bolts in which case you will need to replace the head gasket because the head has been dancing on the gasket and it will never seal again.

That engine will starve for fuel if it is diluted with coolant because the flash steam in a chamber will exhaust the injected fuel charge from the injector right back out of the intake. Is the intake area oily? (actually all diesels will have oily intake manifolds depending on how they are run, cooled down or shut down not to mention an over due valve adjustment (valve event timing).
Diesel engines are a critter and will make themselves known with a trail....


Sorry, we were posting at the same time......... Dinner Time!

So, blow the return line clear.

Also - do not use your finger to do these tests. You may encounter very sudden extremely high fuel pressures. Diesel fuel poisoning in your blood stream will make you very sick if it doesn't kill you!
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Great info. I don't see obvious signs of a headgasket leak. The coolant looked nice a green but the lower portion of the radiator was pretty cruddy when I flushed it. Crankcase oil level is holding steady and not milky. I'll drip some crankcase oil on a paper towel. If you get a distinctive ring it's a sign of fuel in the oil. The sde of the engine at the headgasket does have paint peeled a little and rust but not really showing any sign of seepage of liquids.

The fuel coming out of the top of the IP was barely flowing so I wasn't too concerned about the pressure at the return fitting. Now my Cummins at 23,000 psi is a scary thought.

The black slug in the filter bowl.... algae? If so could that get into the return system?
 

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Alge is a problem but rarely will it totally plug a line - maybe a filter or screen, but very rarely an open line such as the return.

Put a breaker bar on a head bolt and see if it snaps loose or just begins to turn...

Maybe your other inputs are totally correct - the 'IP' has self destructed - but that's so rare....Those 'IP's' are built with much more precision than the basic engine....Usually they will outlast a couple of engines. Have they begun to build them with 'longevity' as their primary design goal? We're all screwed! Those pumps are expensive and not serviced by just anyone....
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Well I blew out the return line. No restrictions as far as I can tell. I can keep it running by putting my finger on the return fitting on top of teh IP but as the engine warms that doesn't work either. Close inspection of the head gasket area reveals no sign of leakage on the outside.

Lift pump next.

IP rebuild after that.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
CubMon,

Is it possible that never adjusted valve lash could be the culprit?
 

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Hello All,

. In the last year I've been having times where it would start shutting down. Starts right back up, shuts down.
It is a very common problem with Deere tractors using Stanadyne/Roosamaster rotary DB or JDB injection pumps. Not just affected by engine hours, but also age Plastic parts inside the pump fall apart over time, regardless of use. Note I said DB and JDB pumps. The CBC pump does not have the problem (but does have many others).

The vibration-dampener on the governor flyweight cage is plastic "pellathane." First it breaks. Then it crumbles and falls aparts and the pieces plug up the pump's return-fuel circuit and housing-pressure-regulating valve. As this happens, first the governor gets unresponsive at times. Then the engine starts to lose power, then quit- then easily restart. Over and over and over again.

This problem is usually very easy to diagnose for sure. Just pull the little rectangular timing window off the side of the pump via two small screws, and/or pull the entire top cover off the pump via three small hex-head bolts. Look inside. If you see any small dark colored bits that look like mouse turds, then you've got a failed dampener ring. It will plug the regulator valve and cause engine shut-down. The info you cited from somewhere else was probably written by me. Did you try removing the entire fitting assembly from the top of the pump - so all there was left as an open hole - and then run it?
Some people make the mistake of only removing the steel fitting that the return line hooks to. That screws into the combo regulator/check-valve under it, and THAT is what plugs.

You also have to verify the injection pump is always getting fuel. It will work fine with NO fuel pump, but cannot work with a BAD fuel pump. Testing the fuel pump with just the hand-primer doesn't tell you much. The hand primer can work fine, while the cam-driven linkage that lets engine run the fuel pump can be worn out. Easiest way to test is just to crack loose the fuel feed line where it hooks to the injection pump while the engine is running. If fuel sprays out, it's obviously getting fuel. Note that if the injection pump is starving for fuel, it will get air in it and act the same as it does when the internal ring has failed.

To fix the pump requires approx. $25 in parts and an hour's labor, not including pulling it off and putting it back on. A pump shop will charge you $400-$800 for the same work. You can also spend an extra $50 and upgrade the governor, and elimate that plastic ring. This was done with all on-the-road Chevy and Ford cars and trucks that used the same basic pump in 1985.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Bingo.... mouse turds.

I did post earlier that I did remove the fitting with screen and valve. It seemed clean and not obstructed. I blew it out but that didn't help. I'm assuming there is a clog inside the pump?

Bottom line... please help me out here. I'm mechanically inclined and have no issues tackling rebuilding the pump. Can you provide a list of everything I need to do this. Parts and tools? I don't have the rebuild manual. I have the two main manuals. It doesn't go into the pump.

I want to upgrade the gov also. Same time I'll replace the lift pump. Any particular model I should go with. I see the replacements online I just like recommendations from those in the know.

Thank you very much... everyone so far helping out. I'll do a picture writeup of the pump rebuild for all to see.

Also should I pull the injectors while I'm at it or do one thing at a time? Leave the injectors alone?

The water on the IP is cause it just rained.

PS... Just ordered the SM 2045 manual. $45 shipped







 

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Bingo.... mouse turds.
Like I said, very common problem. I can't say I ever kept close track, but most Deere tractors we sold had those injection pumps crap out about ever 10 years, regardless of hours used. I carried all the repair parts on the service truck and fixed many, on-site -at the farm, out in the woods, etc.
Stanadyne/Roosamaster DB, JDB, and JDC have the problem. Stanadyne/Roosamaster DM, DB2, CDC, and CBC do NOT have the problem. CAV and Lucas rotary pumps don't have the problem either. The pump you show in the photo is a JDB pump and has obviously been patched up previously.


I did post earlier that I did remove the fitting with screen and valve. It seemed clean and not obstructed. I blew it out but that didn't help. I'm assuming there is a clog inside the pump?
Usually the clog is in the fitting that screws into that top-cover. It is a pressure-regulating valve and has a spring and ball inside. Regulates housing pressure at 2-3 PSI, and also acts as a one-way check valve. If the ball and spring are missing, it's because someone else has already had a problem and removed them. It's a common short-term fix that often leads to bigger problems later.

Can you provide a list of everything I need to do this. Parts and tools? I don't have the rebuild manual. I have the two main manuals. It doesn't go into the pump.
I can't tell from here what esle is worn in that pump. When a pump quits due to that ring failure, but still "starts" and "quits" as you describe . . . this is probably what you'll need.

Complete gasket, o-ring, and seal kit for around $15.
New brass bushing for front of pump - around $6
New regulating valve - around $7
Updated solid governor drive (if wanted) - around $50
Fuel pump blades (mabye) - around $15

Parts inside the pump are too close a fit to be measured with a mike. They are checked by feel and appearance. Worn parts are usually very easy to see. The $15 seal kit comes with a new plastic ring to replace the original - if you choose NOT to upgrade. If you sent your pump to a pump-shop, they would not upgrade it unless you specifically asked. Standard procedure is NOT to upgrade off-road equipment. Only the on-road stuff has it mandated by Stanadyne.

Many tractor companies give full pump repair info in specific tractor-model books. Deere does not. Deere puts it in a separate book - Deere # SM-2045. It is still available in print or CD, but pricey I'm sure. International put it out in Blue Ribbon books. I have a manual for my Ford 4000, Oliver OC4, and my Allis Chalmers HD4 that also give full pump repair information.

To work on the pump, you only need one special tool- and that is mostly just for pump used on Deere and Case tractors. It is a 6-tooth Bristol wrench that you need to get one special bolt out. They're around for $10, more or less. Some people have used Torx T-45 bits, ground down a little. They say it worked, but I never had any reason to try it.

Some more info on that wrench:

Wrench for taking out head-screw is Stanadyne #15499; Six teeth, roughly 5/16" on the OD of the splines (.312”), and 1/4" on the ID. Or 8 mm OD and 6.3 MM ID.
Torx T-45 measures .306” OD.
Can also use Stanadyne # 24992 in place of #15499

One great place for parts is US Diesel. They sell to anyone and ship fast. They will also let you download a parts catalog for free.
I bought a load of parts last year and I assume they've gone up a little.

JDB seal kit - Stanadyne # 24371 - Spaco U24371 $12.10
JDB pilot tube - Stanadyne # 16320 - Spaco U16320 $4.83. Note that the pilot tube is the brass bushing in front of the pump that the driveshaft and two seals ride in. It tends to get a ridge worn into it from the seals. If it has a ridge, replace it.

Note: If you buy the new upgraded solid governor weight-retainer, one nice thing is that it's made of aluminum. It comes blank with no timing mark on it, so you have to put it on yourself. Since it's aluminum instead of steel, it is very easy to scratch on the new timing mark - with no etching tool needed. You just lay it on your old one and copy the mark, to get it in the same place.
They come blank because the same part fits many different engines, 3, 4, 6, and 8 cylinders.


www.usdiesel.com US Diesel in Fort Worth Texas 800-328-0037

The following place was having a heck of a sale on OEM Stanadyne service tools, but I haven't bought from them this year. Everything was half-price. I bought a dozen of the # 15499 wrenches for $3.50 each.


http://www.thompsondiesel.com/Stanadyne.htm

I want to upgrade the gov also. Same time I'll replace the lift pump. Any particular model I should go with.
I doubt it matters. I prefer the fuel pumps that have a screen inside and you can take them apart to clean. They usually come from France and tend to be cheap. Deere and aftermarket sell them. Sometimes you have to look under agricultural to find them. If you can't find listed for a 310 industrial, look under a 2020 ag-tractor instead (same basic engine).


Also should I pull the injectors while I'm at it or do one thing at a time? Leave the injectors alone?
[/QUOTE]

Pencil injectors can be very difficult to get out without bending them and ruining them. So, if you feel the need to remove and check, get ready to buy a set of four new ones. Even if your's are OK now, you might ruin them getting them out. Or maybe you'll get lucky? And, they cannot be rebuilt. You can find new ones for $45 each if you shop around. Just remember they can get stuck in the head something awful. I've had a few that were so stuck, I had to pull the cylinder head off and drive them out from the inside with a punch. In fact, I just had to fix a Case engine that only had 10K hours on it, and it required pulling the head to get the injectors out. That is why you also coat new ones with Never-Seiz when installing.

One question. On the bottom photo you posted, that shows the fuel-inlet and screen assembly. That also has the internal fuel pump regulator built into the bottom of it. Is it still all there? The old style had a rubber plug in the bottom, then a plunger against a spring. The newer style should have a small steel bushing driven into it at the bottom, with plunger and spring behind it. This regulates the transfer pump low pressure circuit. The injection pump is actually two pumps. It has a rotary low pressure transfer pump that feeds a high-pressure piston pump - all inside that one housing. That's why it can be used with no engine-mounted fuel pump at all, but Deere always uses them anyway. They make bleeding fuel filters a lot easier.
This low-pressure rotary vane-pump not only feeds fuel to the high pressure piston pump, it also runs the automatic timing advance.
 
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