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Is there difference between old coil with points and condenser and modern one?

8354 Views 13 Replies 8 Participants Last post by  Felix123, 
F
I have disassembled 1975 horizontal shaft Briggs (Gilson snow blower) and found that points and condenser have wires cut. Old man that sold me the motor ensure that last year he checked and the motor fired. I took it as granted, didn't check. So now the situation...

I tried to identify if the coil was changed previously so no need in condenser but heck don't know the difference - I've posted some pictures, what is the difference between old style coil and new, if any?

As well I guess condenser won't bother if it work. But there are no wires. Many posts explain how to clean and how to adjust points, but nobody show the wires. I understand there are 2 wires: one is ground, another is not. but where to attach to points/condenser and where to coil.

And one more thing, while it's open, how to check condenser using multimeter? Assembled motor use cylinder head screws to hold the casing... I don't want to tight/untight cylinder head checking if all work properly. Very uncomfortable.

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D
"assembled motor use cylinder head screws to hold casing"... huh? the head bolts do not hold any ignition components on that engine!
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F
Don B. said:
"assembled motor use cylinder head screws to hold casing"... huh? the head bolts do not hold any ignition components on that engine!
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So. Can you explain? or it's just post count matter.
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Brad
Felix--I think that your post confused Don B. He was wondering why you thought you had to take the cylinder head off to check the condensor. Also, it appears to me you already have the cylinder head off the motor. Maybe try to explain again what it is your are trying to do.
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F
The question is about electrical, as I've asked.
Cylinder head off becaus rings were replaced.
I've read that coil can be replaced to avoid use of condenser. So here I have both. How much poweir condenser can add to spark - I don't know; and if it will work together with coil (if coil is new and condenser works) when motor is assembled and casing is on - I will never know. I mean it simply can do nothing, or it can add power.
So, once again, 1) coil slyle in the picture new/old, 2) how to test coiondenser using multimeter, 3) how to wire points and condenser with coil.
These are my confusing questions. Confusing? For me yes, cause i dont' know about coil, about condenser with points. Much appreciate competence.
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MrGiggles
You can swap the coil from a new B&S with electronic ignition without trouble. I don't recall what the differences are between the two, but I think yours is the old style. Check the wires coming off of it, if there's two then it old, if only one its a Magnetron (new style).

For the points wires, there is a hole in the middle of the condenser contact point shaft. You have to compress that spring down and stick the wires in the hole. One goes the coil, and the other is the kill wire. When grounded it stops making spark. In fact, in your pics I can see the pieces of wire left over where they snapped off in the condenser.
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Tractor-Holic
That coil IS an electronic one,see the yellow area between the core and the center of it?--thats rthe electronic pick up unit that senses when the magnet on the flywheel spins by and fires the coil,instead of using the points & condensor..a lot of those newer coils get swapped onto old engines and they just snip the wires off the points & condensor..only wire the new coil has is a "kill" wire you ground out to stop the engine..
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F
That sounds. There is only one black wire from the coil which is ground. As well I do believe old man that sold me this motor, he said it fired... however I didn't see the spark when swinged the flywheel.

Here I made two more pictures of this coil - I tried to make them from the flywheel side so "yellow electronic pick up unit" will be visible. There is kind of quick connector (especially visible on the 2nd picture), isn't it for the coil. I mean, CAN POSSIBLY NEW ELCTRONIC COIL WORK IN PAIR WITH MAGNETO? I don't understansd much in electrical issues, just kind of not right to have possibly working condenser and not to use it.

If they don't work together, does really electronic coil have actual advantage over magneto?

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IHcubguy
Felix123 said:
That sounds. There is only one black wire from the coil which is ground. As well I do believe old man that sold me this motor, he said it fired... however I didn't see the spark when swinged the flywheel.

Here I made two more pictures of this coil - I tried to make them from the flywheel side so "yellow electronic pick up unit" will be visible. There is kind of quick connector (especially visible on the 2nd picture), isn't it for the coil. I mean, CAN POSSIBLY NEW ELCTRONIC COIL WORK IN PAIR WITH MAGNETO? I don't understansd much in electrical issues, just kind of not right to have possibly working condenser and not to use it.

If they don't work together, does really electronic coil have actual advantage over magneto?
Click to expand...
yours has whats called a Magnatron kit, used to retrofit must 2 legged ignition armatures w/ breaker points, no need for points and condenser. check for proper air gap between the armature and flywheel if your not getting spark.
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C
Felix123 said:
Here I made two more pictures of this coil - I tried to make them from the flywheel side so "yellow electronic pick up unit" will be visible. There is kind of quick connector (especially visible on the 2nd picture), isn't it for the coil. I mean, CAN POSSIBLY NEW ELCTRONIC COIL WORK IN PAIR WITH MAGNETO? I don't understansd much in electrical issues, just kind of not right to have possibly working condenser and not to use it.

If they don't work together, does really electronic coil have actual advantage over magneto?
Click to expand...
The conversion is described at the Briggs and Stratton site (Retrofitting an Older Ignition Armature):
http://www.briggsandstratton.com/en...ion.aspx?selectCats=Troubleshooting - Repairs

The primary advantage of eliminating the condensor and points is that you no longer have to clean the points; those points require frequent maintenance when they're in use to remove corrosion from their faces.

I don't see the quick connector in your pictures. With this conversion you should only have two wires coming from the coil: the spark plug wire (obvious) and the black kill wire. When the kill wire is grounded to the engine it stops the spark, and that's all there is to it. If anything else doesn't seem right then you should double-check Briggs' documentation to see if the conversion is wired properly.

If everything seems to be wired properly then you have a bad coil; a replacement is around $25. The coil part number is based on the HP of the engine; for single cylinder engines there are only three different coils available.
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F
Awesome! Thanks. I do recognize the conversion now.
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IHcubguy
Might i add, since the breaker points are no longer being used..do not remove. The plunger that opens and closes the points is held in by the spring, if remove..this will cause an oil leak.
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W
I think what he is calling a quick connector is the spring loaded connector that you push in, run the coil and Kill wires thru up ahead, then release with a hook grasping both wires to connect them, it is not a plug in.

Walt Conner
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F
yes, that what i thought is a quick connector actually is spring-holder. I recognized it from the briggs web site from the Chagrin's link. as well this opening (hole) for the points to touch, i found it will leak oil. new kit does provide kind of plug - i dont' have it, but i guess i will plug it with some kind of plastic with silicone. as well i think it will be a good idea to fill up entire space with silicone or something like that... like to burn plastic bags and to fill it up completly.

you guys provide a great info. thank you very much. i am very clear on that now! thanks again. i will post the final result. it will not be the greatest look liek previous trasctor for sale but it should work awesome. coming winter promise to bring lots of snow.
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