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Eco- Friendly landscaper.
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Discussion Starter #21 (Edited)
There is a company that makes standers and Zero turns that are lithium ion. They are very pricey, but they are pioneers. I imagine as the market builds the cost of these larger machines will come down with competition.

I know this is the push mower section, but just to show the tech is further along than you might think! These large mowers run 7 hours on one charge! And have built in blowers in the front of the chassis!

 

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Eco- Friendly landscaper.
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Discussion Starter #23
I was sad to see Core get bought out by MTD. I was going to pick up their Elite trimmer (twice the power and running time)

I swear the Echo 58 volt must use some manner of the same design motor that Core used (Conductor Optimized Rotary Energy) as it appears to be pretty flat and it does say it's brushless. Most of the black box you see in place of a motor is the battery housing. I wonder if Core can still license their patented motor tech?
 

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Eco- Friendly landscaper.
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Discussion Starter #24 (Edited)
No really..... I don't think the expression should be OPE it should be GPE gasoline powered equipment.
Battery powered equipment will take more of the market share in the future. No doubt about that.
While the batteries capacity is getting better, my beef currently is the life of the batteries.
EVERYTHING I have ever owned that had a rechargeable battery has always had the battery need to be replaced at least once before the item was ready to be replaced.
I feel this is a slap in the face from manufacturers. They are happy to sell batteries and make money after the sale.
A gasoline engine on a mower has exactly the same power and runs the same amount of time on a tank of fuel.... years later.
That 40 minute run time will be down considerably in a year or so.

You could do the math all different ways estimating battery degradation and estimated fuel costs and kwh to recharge batts when charging at home.
Eventually battery might be cheaper but not as convenient for me.... But my stick is way down in the mud.

I also would not want to work for any of the people you would need to market to.
The green crowd would like the fact that you are getting the job done in a way they can really approve of.
Those type of people generally irritate, annoy, and depending on my mood... sometimes flat tick me off.

As far as the "green crowd" thing goes, most of my customers don't even realize that everything is battery half the time. Honestly it seems that most of them don't care about the green aspect, they just like that I do a good job and have attention to detail. A lot of people get a kick out of the bike trailer just because they have never seen someone do it! And then some people think I must have a few DUIs when I don't even drink and I'd put my driving record up against anyone's.

The truth is I did this for me. I was getting out of shape and bought a bike when I moved back into the city/suburbs. I was riding bike more once I moved off of the farm I lived on. Riding my bike to my landscaping job one day I thought about how when I was a kid I wanted to make a bike trailer to carry my mower and tools so I didn't have to push it around the neighborhood before I was old enough to drive. I thought about how I could do that now. It started as an experiment...someone pointed out that the whole "bike thing" had a "green" aspect to it....so I kinda ran with that. These days I'm even using biodegradable trimmer line!


So, no, I don't mind if some of my customers are tree hugging bleeding hearts. I feel just as comfortable around my open-carrying right-wing customers and friends. As a Libertarian I give every individual the benefit of the doubt. To each his own as long as it doesn't harm anyone else. I try not to bring up political discussions around customers anyway. And if they do, I just smile nod, even I don't quite agree. It's part of running a business.

I did this how I did it because it was something I wanted to do. I don't market to any target demographic other than geographical proximity.
 

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Tree hugging... Bleeding hearts... You said it... He he
I get into trouble every time I start ranting.

I also am strongly libertarian in my views... I gave up giving the benefit of the doubt when you many people kept wanting to restrict others to only do it their way.
This is pretty anti libertarian.
People with a cause can never live and let live. They always have to try to stop others from doing something they don't believe in or they have decided is bad in some way.
 

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I think it's neat and certainly will advance quickly as we improve upon the technology. We have seen substantial advancements already in a very short time period in regards to battery powered equipment. I don't see it being the death of gas equipment, just another option to broaden the market.

The propane conversion in particular interests me. What's the cost/work needed to set something like that up? Also do you find it saving money versus purchasing gasoline or is the main benefit cleaner burning? I'm assuming you use a liquid withdrawal system like on a forklift?
 

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Kind of like one of those floor buffers. Most have Honda engines. The tank they use would seem cumbersome for an sr4 but those little green screw on ones wouldn't last too long and raise prices substantially.
A refillable about the size of portable oxy/acetylene tank might be nice.
I assume it would use about 20-25% more than gasoline and burn cleaner.
I have worked on a couple of propane or cng trucks and the intake plenum was spotless compared to the nasty black wet carbon that coats a gasoline one.
Not an issue on small engines since they don't do this on their little intakes. It works make the top of piston and combustion chamber pretty but how often do you see that. Not enough of a benefit to warrant retro.
I don't think you could have a dirty main jet from sitting though... That might be worth it.
It could put most shops out of business with all the no starts gone!
 

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One trend I don't like in batteries is the continual increase in voltages. The first drills were like 6-7.2 volts then 9 to 12 to 14 to 18. What are we on now 24 and 36v drills.
I don't see that we always need more voltage just more amp/hr.
A Dewalt 12 and especially 14 and 18 have plenty of torque. They just don't last long enough.
DC power is harmless until you get into higher voltages, then it is a shock hazzard.
This is what I have always understood.
I removed the inverter on a Prius once to replace abs. Won't those orange cables electro-fricken-cute you?
I don't feel comfortable with anything over 18-24v, but maybe these are unfounded fears.
I do lots of crazy crap and take plenty of chances, but I don't want to even feel a tickle from my drill driver battery pack!
 

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Eco- Friendly landscaper.
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Discussion Starter #30
I think it's neat and certainly will advance quickly as we improve upon the technology. We have seen substantial advancements already in a very short time period in regards to battery powered equipment. I don't see it being the death of gas equipment, just another option to broaden the market.

The propane conversion in particular interests me. What's the cost/work needed to set something like that up? Also do you find it saving money versus purchasing gasoline or is the main benefit cleaner burning? I'm assuming you use a liquid withdrawal system like on a forklift?
When I first started all commercial level offerings for lithium ion were in their infancy and there was not a suitable mower option. You can buy the kit from Pumpbiz for $350 (a lot, I know). It is made by AltFuel LLC.

All you do is remove the insulator between the carb and engine. And in it's place you put the "intake plate" that has a fitting threaded into it. Then you attach the line from it to the bottle and valve assembly that attaches to the handle bar. it is pretty much just direct injected propane for lack of a better term. And yes it's liquid like forklift set ups and not vapor.

Pros:

* You never have to winterize, pull it out in the dead of winter, and it will start on the first or second pull.

*Propane has 87% less carbon than gasoline, so no carbon build up in the engine. And your oil never turns black!

*87% carbon means 87% less emissions. That's why forklifts and power buffers can use propane indoors.

*Propane burns cooler than gasoline

*Propane never goes bad, so you can stock up at today's prices.

*Propane can also be cheaper if you buy in bulk.


Cons

* only one really, I use the 1 lb Coleman bottles. They can be pricey, but you get about 100 minutes run time from one.


Also my kit can be used on any engine up to 45 hp. You just have to order the different intake plate for whatever engine.
 

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many people kept wanting to restrict others to only do it their way.
Don't get me wrong I understand that, telling other's what to do with their lives falls under "harming others" in my book.
Definitely
But they don't see it this way. 'If it saves just one tree, whale, child, animal..... (insert cause) "..... then they see it as completely ok to stomp on the rights of individuals and ownership.
 

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Definitely
But they don't see it this way. 'If it saves just one tree, whale, child, animal..... (insert cause) "..... then they see it as completely ok to stomp on the rights of individuals and ownership.
That is until they can proove all these emmisions are causing the weird weather.They have pretty much done that but we turn our heads.Something is causing it that is a fact.
 

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Cons

* only one really, I use the 1 lb Coleman bottles. They can be pricey, but you get about 100 minutes run time from one.


Also my kit can be used on any engine up to 45 hp. You just have to order the different intake plate for whatever engine.[/QUOTE]

There is a kit the refill the Coleman bottles online somewhere.
Ps. I love the business model. I'm probably going to switch to one of the echo mowers next year.
 

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Eco- Friendly landscaper.
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Discussion Starter #35
There is a kit the refill the Coleman bottles online somewhere.
Ps. I love the business model. I'm probably going to switch to one of the echo mowers next year.
Thanks! It is not really safe to refill them from what I've read. Plus you only end up refilling them about half of what they had.

Manchester makes refillable 1 lb bottles. I was going to pick up a half dozen, but I intend to phase the propane mower out. I will still keep it for "rougher" jobs and larger plots.

I also have a 5 lb cylinder and mount.
 

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There is a company that makes standers and Zero turns that are lithium ion. They are very pricey, but they are pioneers. I imagine as the market builds the cost of these larger machines will come down with competition.

I know this is the push mower section, but just to show the tech is further along than you might think! These large mowers run 7 hours on one charge! And have built in blowers in the front of the chassis!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AXGNzP64Xc
The mean green seem to be cool. I would hate to see what they would cost.
 

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As far as the "green crowd" thing goes, most of my customers don't even realize that everything is battery half the time. Honestly it seems that most of them don't care about the green aspect, they just like that I do a good job and have attention to detail. A lot of people get a kick out of the bike trailer just because they have never seen someone do it! And then some people think I must have a few DUIs when I don't even drink and I'd put my driving record up against anyone's.

The truth is I did this for me. I was getting out of shape and bought a bike when I moved back into the city/suburbs. I was riding bike more once I moved off of the farm I lived on. Riding my bike to my landscaping job one day I thought about how when I was a kid I wanted to make a bike trailer to carry my mower and tools so I didn't have to push it around the neighborhood before I was old enough to drive. I thought about how I could do that now. It started as an experiment...someone pointed out that the whole "bike thing" had a "green" aspect to it....so I kinda ran with that. These days I'm even using biodegradable trimmer line!


So, no, I don't mind if some of my customers are tree hugging bleeding hearts. I feel just as comfortable around my open-carrying right-wing customers and friends. As a Libertarian I give every individual the benefit of the doubt. To each his own as long as it doesn't harm anyone else. I try not to bring up political discussions around customers anyway. And if they do, I just smile nod, even I don't quite agree. It's part of running a business.

I did this how I did it because it was something I wanted to do. I don't market to any target demographic other than geographical proximity.
I think what you are doing is way cool. I'm happy that it works for you.
 

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I’ve been waiting for someone to start a thread like this. Yes, they have made some really good progress in battery tools and they will continue to get better. Below are what I have and my feelings about them.
40volt 12” Green works chain saw. It came with 2 batteries. I have never had a need to change batteries. I have cut up to 7”, but, mainly use for de-branching a cut down tree. I still use a gas chain saw for the big work, but love this Green works chain saw to death. I’ve had it for 3 years. This thing rocks!
40volt Green works weed trimer. At first, I loved it, but, before the 1st season ended, the motor completely died. That may have happened because when you tap this unit it sends out too much line and there was too much load on the motor.
40volt Eco weed trimmer. It worked great the first year. This year it seems that the rpm goes down, and then up, but it is still working. I’ve been trying not to let out too much line. You see, I have never used the guard that cuts the line with any trimmer I’ve ever had. My Bad!
40volt Eco blower. I’ve used it for a season and half and so far very good. I don’t use it a lot, but am content.
40volt Ryobi push mower. I used it one time was so unimpressed and for that kind of money, took it back the next day.
40volt Ryobi hedge trimer. It is listed to cut ¾” and that is pretty true. For me, this also rocks!
I added a shelf under my bench to put the chargers that works for me. After I brought the Ryobi back I bought the cub mower with the zero front wheels. Frankly, I don’t know what the benefits of the front wheels are. To me, they just don’t let you mow as close as you want. I will say that it cuts really good, I mean really good.
 

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Eco- Friendly landscaper.
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164 Posts
Discussion Starter #39
The EGO blower is legit. But their mower's motor burned up after putting 70 hours on it in 4 months. It turned out to not be suitable for commercial use. I am very picky with trimmers though and Out of the Stihl/Core/EGO/Echo, the Echo 58 volt trimmer is by far the best there is out there right now. And I really like the Echo mower, it is far superior to the EGO.

I think the Mean Green 60 inch ZTR is almost $20k!

I just started a Lithium Ion/Alternative Fuel OPE page on facebook if any of you do the facebook thing.

Perhaps there should be sub-forum like like that on this forum?


https://www.facebook.com/groups/130751943926018/
 

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Eco- Friendly landscaper.
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Discussion Starter #40
I like your bench set up. I have something similar going on, just with much more batteries and chargers.

I'd a take a pic, but I don't know how you upload pics from your computer on here. Help?
 
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