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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We have a Ingersoll 402 and it has been working good hydraulically until lately. Today it got stalled where the hydraulics wouldn't drive it forward or backwards, I looked at the shaft into the pump and that looks like it's turning good. I then tested the hydraulic lift and it will lift the mower but if I stand on the back hydraulic arm it doesn't have enough to lift me and the deck. We were able to push and get it going to drive it back to the barn. We changed the hydraulic oil and put in new 20W50, the oil that came out seems to have a lot of bronze or something in it. This didn't help the hydraulics much, it will drive it out but not up any kind of a hill. I feel it's probably a bad hydraulic pump but would like some opinions and possibly some tests or tolerences for the pump before we buy a new one. Also has anybody used a aftermarket pump vs the Case pump which is ~500.00. Thanks, Tim
 

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Tim, I would say the first step is to confirm the input shaft key is not sheared.

Sometimes this happens and will continue to build a little pressure for a while, but not enough to do good work. Seems you've already experienced that and the lift test you did is a good step in diagnosis. The bronze does not bode well for the pump, though some coloration is common.

Check on the key way at the adaptor to the crankshaft and report back.

Does your tractor have a rear PTO? From there you could take pressure readings.

Drop me an eMail and I'll mail you the hydraulic test manual.


Brian
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well, I did some tests today, The pressure at the outlet of the PTO at full speed is only 400 PSI, I also did a informal flow test (open pipe from PTO to a measuring cylinder and got 7.9 GPM vs. the design of 9.5, not too far off of design but but against no back pressure I think the pump is still the problem, 1st chance I get to pull and inspect may be next week. Thanks Brian for the info.
Tim
 

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Well, I did some tests today, The pressure at the outlet of the PTO at full speed is only 400 PSI, Tim
You do need to 'load' the system to get any pressure build up. Simply running high engine RPM, something around 400 psi with no load would be reasonable.

Monitor the pressure while lifting/lowering the deck to the stops. Should be around 600.

Monitor the pressure while trying to get the tractor to accelerate quickly in high range ... should go up to 1700-2000 psi.

If you can, push against a tree (stall the rear axle) and you should see close to steady 2000 and the whine or pressure relief valve.


Brian
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I should have explained better, I did apply a load, the pressure gauge was on the PTO outlet by itself and I engaged it fully, it used to make a lot of noise but not anymore, the flow test was after I removed the pressure gauge and added a pipe nipple to measure the flow. Also while I had the PTO engaged with the pressure gauge I also tried moving the machine but it barely moved and the pressure didn't go up any. I also did stand on the lift in the back and attempted to lift but it wouldn't until I stepped off. Thanks, Tim
 

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To answer the "has anyone with 4020 had an aftermarket pump ..." part of the question; yes. Mine had one, unbenounced to me, when I bought it installed by a po. The problem with an aftermarket pump is that there is no DIRECT replacement (that I know of) for that original pump. There are some similar, which is what mine was, but not the same, which means that some degree of "re-engineering" is necessary in order to make it work. IIRC, the return line is the major issue. Mine had a "custom" fitting that attempted to address this issue, and actually seemed like it should work ...and sorta did ...until the pump starts moving around (as it is designed to do).

Long story somewhat short: despite efforts to continue to use the aftermarket pump, I finally came to the conclusion to just "get the right stuff" and put it together like it should be. My advise to anyone needing to replace the pump in one of these would be the same. Those hoses and fittings and brackets are quite "application specific" in there, and are not very tolerant to change.
 

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In re-reading my own reply, I meant to say the "inlet" line to the pump (from the tank). The large hose. Most pumps have a threaded inlet and these have a larger, push-on, hose-clamped connection facing up ...that is the "unique" characteristic.
 

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We have a Ingersoll 402 and it has been working good hydraulically until lately. Today it got stalled where the hydraulics wouldn't drive it forward or backwards, I looked at the shaft into the pump and that looks like it's turning good. I then tested the hydraulic lift and it will lift the mower but if I stand on the back hydraulic arm it doesn't have enough to lift me and the deck. We were able to push and get it going to drive it back to the barn. We changed the hydraulic oil and put in new 20W50, the oil that came out seems to have a lot of bronze or something in it. This didn't help the hydraulics much, it will drive it out but not up any kind of a hill. I feel it's probably a bad hydraulic pump but would like some opinions and possibly some tests or tolerences for the pump before we buy a new one. Also has anybody used a aftermarket pump vs the Case pump which is ~500.00. Thanks, Tim
If you looked at the particles in the oil, they're probably aluminum, that look golden because of the oil. A lot of newer pumps don't have any bronze at all, they have Teflon coated bushing that last longer, but I don't know if Ing. used these. A few particles in the oil is not uncommon, gear pumps are often 'run in' after assembly and the gears mill themselves into the housing; this should be done on a test bench so the particles are captured, but if it wasn't, or the pump was used at a higher pressure than anticipated, more milling will occur.

Before buying a new pump:
Check the relief; it could be stuck open with some dirt in it.
Take pump off and disassemble. Look for scoring. If it looks good;
Have pump tested at hydraulic shop.

I don't have a Ing, please post picture of pump and how it mounted.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well, I pulled the pump and tore it down and now it's obvious it needs a new pump. Attached are some pictures, the driven shaft was broken off and the housing shot, I was really surprised that it was still working at all. Thanks for the help, now where to from here. I suppose I will have to find a way to flush through the system to clean it up as best as I can. :thanku:
 

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Okay, it's a Parker D27. The x means special which is probably the suction siget. Is the rear housing salvageable.?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Basically none of it's any good, I placed an order for a new OE one. Hopefully the rest of the grass can get cut. Thanks for the help.:thThumbsU
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Well, I received the new pump yesterday (Thanks Bhildret for the quick shipping) and installed it this morning and it seems Great, better than since we have had it. I did a quick pressure test at the PTO and on low speed it stalls the motor and at full speed I got ~2100 psi and that's where it's relief dumps so should be good. Thanks for all the help. Tim:thanku:
 

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... I did a quick pressure test at the PTO and on low speed it stalls the MOTOR and at full speed I got ~2100 psi and that's where it's relief dumps so should be good. Thanks for all the help. Tim

You mean engine? Not hydraulic motor. And low speed means low Rev; right!

Has this tractor ever had a hydra vac? What hydraulic attachments do you have. Is the deck hydraulic on a 4000 series?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Yes I did mean engine and the low speed was the rpm of the engine. This has the rear PTO but at this time we don't have any hydraulic attachments for it. The RM48 deck is belt driven. Thanks
 
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