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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am trying to purchase a 4016, but the guy can't get it started on its own, he has to use starting fluid... Here's what I observed tonight as I looked at it:

- pulled off both spark plugs; very old, dirty, and rusty
- when he did get the engine to run for a bit, it definitely emitted 'blue' smoke out of the front exhaust
- air filt was off and VERY dirty... (it was off because he was spraying in the starting fluid)
- checked the oil... it was very dark... the level comes up about 1/4" beyond the 'fill' mark on the dipstick; I definitely screwed the cap all the way on to check the level
- front grill bent in/broken
- rear left tire; side wall has dry rot slits in it (owner says both rear tires slow leak)
- front left tire; hole plugged
- hydra vac does not have 'cover' that I've observed in pictures that I've seen of the trailer
- hydra vac hoses have slits in them and are covered with old duct tape
- has front blade implement; looks to be in decent condition, slight bend in bottom of blade
- mower deck looks 'ok'... belt looks 'ok'... couldn't tell much more since the tractor won't run
- general condition of the tractor looks pretty good overall; it needs to be cleaned up
- 1150 hours on it

Can anyone help me figure out if there is a way to get this thing started and running long enough to determine its condition?

The seller has a tool to test engine compression... what should it read? He thinks the 'blue' smoke indicates the rings need replacing; I've not done that before

I suggested he at least replace the spark plugs, but I'm not sure that will solve the 'non-running' issue. He mentioned it ran fine about 6 - 8 weeks ago.

Thanks for any help!!!!
 

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TE Writer!
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first off mink2525, pull the fuel from the carb. to see there is fuel in the line. If there is the problem will be in the carb, some minor cleaning should do the trick.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
If I can purchase the tractor and implements for $400.00 as is, do you think I can get it running and deal with all of its ailments?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
He's selling it for his mother-in-law...

I've not ever dealt with a carb; could it be that easy of a fix?
 

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HeadCase For My Ingersoll
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It depends on what's wrong with it. Could be something simple like water in the bowl or something more sinister.
 

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4016's have been available since 1989 so the hour meter reading seems reasonable. This tractor has all the signs of being badly neglected by its current owners. I don't think that they know that tractors require regular servicing. What's there is worth $400.00 all day long but be prepared to spend some serious money to make this a good tractor.

- Utility Blade - if all it needs is a new cutting edge, then you can either buy an OEM one or just get a piece of steel flat bar and make your own. The blade is worth $200.00 by itself.

- Hydra Vac - This is an expensive attachment to purchase and the parts are not cheap to buy. The duct-taped hoses are something I can understand but the missing trailer cap is bizarre. If he's TRULY selling this for his MIL, then the rest of the vac is sitting at her place. I'd push him into getting it because you are likely staring at a $500.00 plus cost to replace it. I take it that the Ingersoll dump cart IS there, forms part of this deal and is in decent condition?

TRACTOR: Don't try to fool yourself here. If the engine is blowing blue smoke, you won't get away with sticking in a set of rings. Under good care, this engine should have lasted 3000 to 4000 hours but when people don't change the oil or keep the air filter clean, then the entire engine suffers. Whether it's even worth rebuilding won't be known until you tear it down and maybe a brand new 20 hp Vanguard would be the way to go anyway.

As I see it, this tractor is suffering from a stuck fuel cut-off solenoid in the carb from sitting around and being neglected. Instead of focusing on getting it running, I'd focus on getting all the bits and pieces that should be there but are not. And then I'd base my offer on that. If the rest of the Hydra-Vac show up and I was happy with what I could see, then paying $300.00 or $400.00 for what's there would be a good deal. He wants it gone. He has no money in it if he's telling the truth so he shouldn't care. You could always make your own enclosure for the dump cart so that isn't a deal-breaker but it is a leverage point in that the vac is useless without all of its parts.

Even if it cost you $1500.00 more to put a new engine in this tractor, you would still end up with a nice package that will last you a long time. On the other hand, you could get real lucky and find out that all that's needed is to have the carb solenoid problem cured plus routine servicing. Either way, it's worth the $400.00 gamble. The package will easily part out for triple that figure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for the clarification...

The dump cart is definitely there and appears OK. I didn't try to pull it out to confirm its condition or check the tires all that closely... general visual inspection was pretty good.

I agree with you regarding the blade.

Would you suggest putting another Vanguard engine back into it? Will a 20HP fit without 'too many' modifications?

Thanks for the info!!!
 

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Ingersoll made a 4020 and 4020PS model that was no different from the 4016 other than the engine and power steering. Therefore, then 20 hp engine will drop right in.

Stay with the Vanguard. They are great engines but no engine can withstand neglect indefinitely. Whatever is wrong with the current engine is the fault of the owner, not the engine. Now go over there, make the guy hunt for the missing Hydra-Vac parts and then buy the package for as cheap as you can. The smart thing to do right now is to forget about trying to get the engine running. Use that to your advantage in the negotiations.

If he gets it started and the blue smoke goes away............then the price will go up.
 

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GET TOUGH GET A CASE!
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I agree too. Use the fact it does not run to your advantage and offer less for it.
I just did this earlier this week on a 226 with a K44 deck. On the phone he kept saying how he was trying to get it running better and I told him forget it and stop wasting his time and money. I got it for $100 less than the already reasonable asking price. ( I should have asked less, he had no hesitation to my offer.) I asked about some other things he had laying there and he threw in another deck for free plus some other rarities.

So it pays to Discover haha. sorry could'nt resist. :fing20:
I always look for things that are worn or in bad shape and state the cost to fix such things. This makes them rethink the asking price. So get aducated on the cost of fixing it.
Don't feel bad to low ball the offer. You can always go up.:fing32:
 
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