[illness]

I bought a 420 with 40 loader, 3pt hitch, and box scrape.

Obviously, the tractor has the wrong loader and it is painfully unimpressive as far as performance.

I don't see an easy way to retrofit the loader to work with the onboard hydraulics as well as a 44 loader?

The tractor itself has a lot of hours, 2750 hours.

Question is, should I go double for probably nothing, and buy a 425, 445, or 455 and sale the 420. I would at least have the right loader for the right tractor. As I understand this so far, there are no pumps or extra parts required for the 40 loader to work on the tractor it was designed for?

OR, repower to 420 - sale the 40 loader and wait on a 44 loader to come along.

 

[coalminer16]

You could add a reservoir and pump and it will run like a 44 or even better then. Lots of pump options out there and prices aren't bad. Reservoir can be made from just about anything and put just about anywhere on the tractor. Working on a custom Johnston 12T loader, 140 JD and Brantly backhoe that has a different pump and I am making the reservoir.

Depends on if you want to keep it though on what you want to do with it. 44 loaders run for around $3,000. The advantage of the 420 is the H3 hydro system vs only H2 on the newer tractors.

FYI-the 44 loader if you do get one NEEDS to be for the 420 as the sub frame and the control levers are different then the 430 and the subframe, pump and pump mount is different then the 300 series 44 loader. The loader framework is the same but several key differences.

 

[phillijp]

If it were me, I'd sell the 420 and look for a 425, 445 or 455. You'll get a newer machine with foot control and better operator controls. You'll have a loader mounted to the correct tractor and around here a 420 commands the same price as a 425.

I like to fabricate as much as the next guy but sometimes it makes sense to but something that's plug and play.

 

[illness]

Thanks, for the reply guys.

coalminer,

What good does a pump do on my setup? Consider me completely ignorant on the hydraulics of these tractors.

As I understand it my tractor is running off the tractors onboard hydraulics. You're saying I can add a pump and make things better?

My thinking was the 44 loader had it's on pump and controls as one closed circuit system.

philijp,

Heading toward your way of thinking...


Here the tractor in question.

 

[coalminer16]

You would need the control valve as well. Basically you would turn it into a 44 loader by adding those things.

The advantage of the 420 and having a closed loop system separate is you could run the loader and run a 3 point separate as well as even have the other two hydro ports on the back of the tractor running other implements on the 3 point. 425-55 you have to lock out the 3 point and you can't use any other items without either locking out or using divert valves. Each has there advantages.

 

[illness]

I would need the pump, control valve, reservoir, and hoses?

Also, custom mounting brackets for all this?

 

[phillijp]

To expand upon my reasoning; you could step into a 425 for about what you'd get for selling the 420, and have a machine that will serve you well. Meanwhile if the 425 just isn't enough for you you can keep your eyes peeled for a 445 or 455 and once that's done you'll have a machine that's still plug and play with the loader you already have. Finding the loader is the hardest part, you've already done that, finding a 425, 445 or 455 will be much easier.

 

[cd202]

I agree with coalminer buy a hydraulic pump and 2 spool valve along with a reservoir and make the 40 basically into a 44. Then you have a complete functioning 3 point while the loader is working.

 

[Todd_D]

I agree with coalminer buy a hydraulic pump and 2 spool valve along with a reservoir and make the 40 basically into a 44. Then you have a complete functioning 3 point while the loader is working.

I think this is the best option too. If that does not work, I would hold onto the loader and find a 425-445-455 tractor and sell the 420. I think it will be easier to find a tractor to fit your loader versus finding a 44 loader.

 

[illness]

Can you guys offer some part numbers and where I can get the parts to retrofit the loader?

I assume I will need custom mounting brackets for the pump and the control valves?

 

[illness]

To expand upon my reasoning; you could step into a 425 for about what you'd get for selling the 420, and have a machine that will serve you well. Meanwhile if the 425 just isn't enough for you you can keep your eyes peeled for a 445 or 455 and once that's done you'll have a machine that's still plug and play with the loader you already have. Finding the loader is the hardest part, you've already done that, finding a 425, 445 or 455 will be much easier.

Your wisdom is not a wasted post, sir.

 

[Funnydirt14]

Your wisdom is not a wasted post, sir.

Listen to wisdom. Think about resale on a set-up with all the extra parts for an older tractor that may not be as desirable in the future if you want to sell it. When in doubt I always follow the simple rule of KISS. Keep it simple stupid. It will be easy to get rid of the 420 and get a 425,445,455 which is a better tractor in my opinion.

 

[illness]

I have the big front mounting piece/grill guard and the quick disconnect shaft for 425-55. Not sure if I'm missing anything.

From this image does the hydraulic hoes look like they are the right length. I can't say at this point, the previous owner may have put shorter or longer hoses on to make this work on the 420.



Also, can I put 420 wheels on a 425-55?

 

[coalminer16]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JOHN-DEERE-...959?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd4984227

I am wondering if the 40 loader is more rare then the 44 loader? You can make a 430 44 loader work as I have seen others mount the subframe onto the 420 still without hacking it up.

I am curious if the 40 loader mounts are cut up at all. Would the mounts still work on the newer tractor?

To get the right pump you need to find out what the flow/pressure the loader is rated for and then get a pump that will do that at 2000 RPM if mounting to the front. Or you could do direct drive off the rear of the 420 at engine RPM of the rear output shaft from the hydro pump (if there isn't another PTO there already). With the rear option you could even put a mower deck on if the loader mounts don't interfere. Otherwise you have the option of the loader staying mounted and using a rear finish mower on a 2000 RPM PTO on the 3 point.
Examples of hydro pumps
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_hydraulics+hydraulic-pumps

Examples of 2 spool hydro valves
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/to... valve&mkwid=scAfBTtqA&pcrid=13038233711&mt=b

Examples of hydro reservoirs
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...ervoir&mkwid=shYK449L2&pcrid=15754273151&mt=e


With the reservoir I would honestly build my own (infact-I am currently). You can mount in just about an location. Loaders typically have either an upright converted into a tank (old johnson loaders). The 33 loader has the tank mounted to the uprigh and the valve mounted right above that. The tank needs a vent (which is also fill port), larger suction port and return port. The pump has the larger suction hose going from the tank to the pump and then a smaller pressurized hose goes to the control valve. Then teh 3 hoses you have plugged into the front of your tractor go into the control valve. There is a return port on the control valve as well that you have another hose going back to the oil tank.

The oil tank I am making is rectangular tubing that I am welding on as the loader mounts under the loader and the backhoe frame is getting welded to that. I will connect the loader tank to the other tank I am building just so there is an easy way to fill and not have as big a chance of air getting into it on a side hill since my tank will be horizontal under the tractor. It will with loader and backhoe have 11 cylinders. It is a johnson 12T loader (for first year 140's only) and a Brantley backhoe mounted to a 140. Brother started the project-I am finishing-for our father.

 

[illness]

Thanks Coalminer

The info is very helpful.

I was told that the previous owner went to great length not to change the loader and tractor so much the two could not be separated.

The only thing I've found is the power steering pump has been moved out a hair - relocated about 3 inches. It looks like it is to accommodate the loader sub frame on the left side of the tractor.

The tractor has front, mid, & rear pto. Would prefer to keep the rear pto.
I really don't need this to mow grass, I have other mowers.

I have found more 44 loaders than 40 loaders. I would have thought there would have been more 40's.

Found this info on the 425 hydraulics.

http://http://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=175389&page=2

Looks like the 425 is 4.5 to 6 gpm. If the 40 loader is plug and play, that's got to be what the loader expects. Reference is made to implement relief set at the factory to 1066 psi.