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Discussion Starter #1
First off, just want to be honest that I'm a real greenhorn in the tractor world.
So, here's my problem(S):
I bought a Ford 1900 with a Westendorf TA111 loader last summer. Before I parked it this past fall(inside my barn but, not heated) it was jumping a little when I operated the bucket and lift, for loader. It would creak some too. I would run it up and down a couple times and tip up and down a few times and it would get better. Didn't really have any trouble lifting or dumping. The bucket would lift the front of the tractor off the ground.
Fast forward to this past week. I noticed right away it was extremely slow and the 3pt lift will not move up except when I am dropping the bucket down. There seems to be no torque in loader. I exercised it quite a bit thinking it was cold or trying to work any air out and it isn't making any difference. I went ahead and tried to do some scraping of dead brush and it got to a point it just wouldn't lift unless I let off the tractor throttle close to or at idle. It's almost like there is a relief valve somewhere that is opening too soon or the 2 spools are leaking across each other at the controller. I did notice some seepage at one of the spool post(the handle is hooked to it?).
I really would appreciate any guidance or direction on this. At this point I'm thinking there is an issue with the spool valve controller and am wondering how easiest to prove that and secondly is it better to try and rebuild or just replace. How do I find the rating to use for a replacement? Is it the rating for my pump on the Ford tractor or(?). Westendorf site only shows their most current TA-111a model and the controller is definitely different than mine.
Please, can any of you help me or lead me in a direction to help myself.
TIA
 

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:MTF_wel2:, QH's Paw!

You can start by checking the pressures with a 3000 psi gauge. The best location is at the input side of the valve body. There may be a Gauge port on the body that you can use, otherwise, disconnect the line at the valve body and install a Tee fitting in the body and reconnect the line. Install the gauge on the open branch of the Tee.

Start the engine and observe the pressure, then raise the arms while watching. When the arms are all the way up, the pressure should spike to the relief pressure.

If the pressure is high (over 500 psi) during the lifting process, the pins are tight and the rust from sitting over winter needs to be sanded off.

If the pressure is erratic, check the fluid level, and check for leaks in the pump supply line. The pump supply is under negative pressure and may be sucking air. That doesn't necessarily mean that it will leak fluid with the engine off. Hoses on barbed fittings can rot over time leaving enough room to suck air but reseal to keep fluid from escaping when the engine is off and acting like a one-way valve.

Find the specs for the relief pressure on that loader, probably around 2000-2500 psi. If the pressure doesn't peak somewhere in that range, the relief valve is suspect and needs to be pulled for inspection and cleaning.

Note that these are generic tests that work for hydraulic systems in general. I know zip about your specific equipment.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks Tudor.
My next days are Monday and Tuesday. I'll have to swing by Northern tool or TSC and find a cheap gauge, after I look at thread pitch and ports on the controller.
 

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Well, I didn't get a gauge but, I had a local guy come over and go over things. To start, as I knew, there was seepage from the spool valve. What I hadn't noticed was that both spools are leaking and one of them looks fairly worn. My case, where the hydraulic fluid returns to, is becoming frothy or foamy, like there is air coming in(probably from spools). Since there appears to be some wear on the one spool, I'm going to replace the controller first.
The guy mentioned that the oil might be breaking down from the introduction of air. Does that sound right? I thought it odd. I assumed once I fix the leak, the oil will settle back to normal state. At this point, unless I hear differently from others, I intend to leave the oil and see how it settles out with the new controller.
 

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Air can't enter at the spools. The pressure inside the valve body is higher than the air pressure on the outside. That's why it's leaking fluid. The O-rings in the valve body are worn and need to be replaced. There are 2, one at each end of the spool, and they are not difficult to replace. The first time might take you half an hour to disconnect, dismount, and disassemble the valve to replace the O-rings, and then put it all back together. The second time shouldn't take more than 15 minutes.

Any wear on the spools that might cause issue is inside the cast iron valve body and pretty much not visible by the human eye until it is disassembled.

As mentioned previously, the only place that air can enter the system is at the supply side of the pump including the pump seals.
 

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Good afternoon gents, I'm having a similar problem with an older Kubota that I just put the T111 loader on today. I see no leaks but it was acting weird at first. I cleaned the filter cartridge and ended up putting 3 gallons of hyd fluid in the tank before I could see it in the sight glass. The bucket rams work limitedly but the lift rams are non functional. I raised the loader arms with a floor jack while trying to hit the up control then dropped the arms while hitting the down control. I think its just an air in the system issue. Any thoughts? This is my first endeavor with this type of tractor.
 

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Hi Jeff308 and
2449661

you came to the right spot to get an answere to that question....there are a couple of guys on here that are whizzes at that stuff and should be able to help you shortly
 

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The primary source of air in a hydraulic system that has been operational is via the inlet side of the pump, either a leaking suction line or low fluid level that is too low for the suction line to pick up.

An alternate source is air entering the cylinders when dropping a heavy load. The load can cause the cylinders to overrun the available pump flow. The temporary cure for that is to cycle the cylinders full stroke a couple of times to purge the air back to the reservoir for the breather to disperse. The full cure is to reseal the cylinders, but that may not be essential if it only happens on occasion.

The third possibility is worn piston seals in the cylinders allowing fluid to blow by to the other end of the cylinder and back to tank. It only takes one blown piston seal to cause issues with either the lift cylinders or the bucket curl cylinders.

I'd go with the first with the information presented, and get a pressure gauge to assist with further diagnostics if that isn't the problem.
 

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Thanks Tudor, I think it was just very low on fluid initially. This is a brand new loader going on a tractor that has never had a loader before. It ran the 3-point and the PTO just fine but I couldn't see any fluid in the sight glass on the side of the trans. After 3 gallons, now its full but it was foamy looking. I've let it sit over night and will try it again this afternoon. I will also look for a 3000psi gauge to plumb into the system to check that pressure as you were talking about earlier.
Jeff
 

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OK guys, here was the issue. The hydraulic valve (I've heard it called the "power beyond" valve, has a captured screw on the face. There is a "C" clip holding it in place. I tried bleeding the system at the rams and did let a bunch of fluid leak all over the ground but still had no movement in the loader. I contacted Westendorf and the tech advised to turn the captured screw. It turned about 90 degrees and everything worked correctly after that. Thank you for your help. I'm trying to attach a couple pics of the block so you guys can see what I'm rambling about.
Jeff
 
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