[HavinFun]

Is it possible? I have been reading a lot about FEL while I am waiting for spring and my own FEL project. Has anyone made a hydraulic drive PK? Could the clutch, front transmission and coupler be removed and replaced by a hydraulic pump in place of the clutch and then a hydraulic motor attached to the rear transmission? The extra capcaity of the FEL system would aid in this design but might need some extra cooling. Ideally a foot peddle similar to those used on hydrostatic drive tractors in place of the clutch would make a FEL tractor much more user friendly. What do you think?

Terry

 

[TUDOR]

Is it possible? I have been reading a lot about FEL while I am waiting for spring and my own FEL project. Has anyone made a hydraulic drive PK? Could the clutch, front transmission and coupler be removed and replaced by a hydraulic pump in place of the clutch and then a hydraulic motor attached to the rear transmission? The extra capcaity of the FEL system would aid in this design but might need some extra cooling. Ideally a foot peddle similar to those used on hydrostatic drive tractors in place of the clutch would make a FEL tractor much more user friendly. What do you think?

Terry

Possible? Yes. Worthwhile? That's the big question.

The highlighted part of your post is where the problem lies. A GT sized FEL uses 3-5 gpm of hydraulic flow. A top end hydro flows up to 14 gpm, and the hydrive in a Case GT flows about 9 gpm. While it is possible to run two hydraulic systems off of one pump by using a flow divider, control becomes somewhat problematic since a specific flow rate will be dedicated to one or the other system across the engine's rpm range. In particular, a FEL that operates at only one speed is not fun when precision is required.

The Case tractors have a specialized drive control valve that allows both functions. Since I have never operated a Case with the hydrive system, I can't really comment on how precise the control is for either function. I can comment on the controllability of a hydro in conjunction with a dedicated auxiliary FEL pump, and it is very good. I wouldn't want anything less.

Surplus Center sells a hydro pump and several hydraulic motors that would work for your drive modifications. Coupled to the second transmission, they would give you three ranges, which is a very good thing. They also sell utility pumps that would take care of the FEL duty.

Note that a pump is sized for the task at hand. Too big and FEL control is out the window, too small and the FEL will be too slow for many tasks.

Cooling for a correctly sized FEL system is not a problem, and a hydro/gear motor drive system will be relatively easy to keep excess heat under control.

 

[9297oldram]

My Case trencher/tractor project is hyd driven, it has it's advantages and disadvantages. I would say it's like having a lawn tractor with the hydrostatic drive only a little slower.

 

[HavinFun]

Thanks for your posts and experiences.

In my mind's eye I am envisioning running 2 seperate systems. The factory hydraulic system would remain intact. The clutch, front trans and coupler would be removed and a 2nd pump attached in it's place. The factory FEL reservoir would serve both system though it may need enlarged and/or additional cooling added.

The pump would need to be sized to run a motor capable of producing at least 3600 rpm and 391.2 in-lbs. This would match the factory speed and torque of the K361. I think that a few more rpm's would be advantageous and take full advantage of having the 3 speed transmission behind it.

Thinking about more rpm's, 3rd gear would give you a faster transit speed when needed similar to the highway gear on larger tractors. The lower gears could then be used as a multiplier to bring the torque back when needed. In this case you would probably want a motor/pump combo that generated less torque than the 391.2 in-lbs so as to not overload the motor or break parts in the drivetrain after the hydraulic motor.

I am having trouble envisioning the type of controller that would be used in this application. Can anyone educate me here? oldram, what are you using on your trencher project?

Dreamin' of havinfun on a hydra tractor.

Terry

 

[HavinFun]

Thinking about more rpm's,...y

If my math is working this morning, The T-92 has gear ratios of:
3rd = 1:1 resulting in 7.1mph @ 3600rpm
2nd = 1.73:1 resulting in 4.1mph @ 3600rpm
1st & R = 3.38:1 resulting in 2.1mph @ 3600rpm

To increase the rpm's so 2nd is like 3rd is currently would take 6,234 rpm's and result in tractor speeds of:
3rd = 12.3 mph
2nd = 7.1 mph
1st & R = 3.63 mph

That seems fast just looking at the numbers. So a few more numbers while I have the calculator broken out:
4,000 rpm
3rd= 7.89mph
2nd= 4.56mph
1st & R=2.34mph

5,000rpm
3rd= 9.86mph
2nd=5.69mph
1st & R =2.91mph

5k seems like a nice adjustment without bouncing someone out of the seat. Thoughts?

Crazy dreams of Havin'fun with a bottomless bank account...

Terry

 

[9297oldram]

Here's my build https://www.mytractorforum.com/119-home-made-tractors-implements-accessories/

I'm just using the original set up, it's basically just a rod with a cable attached on the end that I move forward or back and farther it goes in either direction the faster. The other end of the cable goes to the drive pump and it has a arm on the side that the cable attaches to and it moves the arm up and down for the forward and reverse.

I could probably get you some pictures if you wanted of the drive pump and control rod.

 

[HavinFun]

I could probably get you some pictures if you wanted of the drive pump and control rod.

pics are always good. ...worth a thousand words and all that.

Is the control valve a normal 1 or 2 spool valve?

Terry

 

[9297oldram]

No on this the pump and control is all in 1, i'll get you some pictures maybe this afternoon or first thing in the morning.

 

[GB in MN]

Hi Havenfun for what you want you need to go to the new Power Kings (often referred to as Plastic Kings) a 1620 hydro is a nice tractor or the new UT602 series
What your thinking of has been discussed many time and I've never seen anything done or completed

View attachment 1600 Series.pdf

View attachment The performance heavyweight.pdf

 

[HavinFun]

Thanks GB. I have read that the Plastic Kings had unreliable hydra units. That is why I went with an older gear driven PK.

Terry

 

[GB in MN]

Thanks GB. I have read that the Plastic Kings had unreliable hydra units. That is why I went with an older gear driven PK.

Terry

Hi Terry someone gave you bad information the Plastic Kings have a bullet proof hydro it was the clutch in the 4 speed manual transmissions that had problems, the latest model clutch is better and if the snubber brake is installed are better.

 

[9297oldram]

This picture is the control arm in the cab

The drive motor hydraulic pump, the orange arm on the front is the forward and reverse arm.

This is the control cable that's attached to the arm.

The small pump on the end of the drive motor hyd pump is for the hyd cylinders.

 

[Hydronerd]

I converted a Sear's tractor to hydraulic 30yrs ago; it still works fine. I kept the transmission in place, just added a pump and motor in place of clutch. I came across two hydraulic gear motors (high speed), the same size, so I used one as a pump and one as a motor. Since they were the same size, the motor output speed was the same as the pump's input speed. I used the same pulleys (belt drive) as the original setup. You want about 0.8 to 1.2 cu. in.; depends on what motor you find.
Then what you want to do is find a priority flow control (divider) and tap off some oil for your FEL. When your using the FEL the tractor will go slower, so you just use a higher gear. Your not gonna be using high travel speed for loader work anyhow. When you bypass the loader you have practically same speed as you did before conversion.

 

[Kbeitz]

Look into these units... You could remove your tranny and put this in place...