[Mrgoodwrench]

So this is the adapter plate on my 8199kt that has a small engine warehouse briggs 23hp vanguard conversion kit installed by the previous owner. And as you can see from the pucture the pto bore and mounting bolt hole are very close and as you can see from the o-ring mark it was leaking through the bolt hole any ideas? Im off work and hoping to get it fixed today so any fast replies would be greatly appreciated.

 

[WH401]

Did the PO over-bore that hole to fit the bolt head in there? That's what it looks like since it cuts into the PTO ring like that. Haven't seen an adapter plate from the factory with the PTO hole offset so much before. I would run a small bear of RTV around the two holes on the transmission, and then fill the entire cavity around that one bolt head on the adapter side with RTV. Put the engine back on the trans and then let it sit for a few days to fully cure the bigger glob, and see how it goes.

Rick

Edit: One other thing I noticed, does the adapter plate sit level on the back of the trans. The line of dirt running crooked across the top of the plate threw me off.

 

[Mrgoodwrench]

I was thinking silicone aswell. I will have to look and see if it sits level. Thanks for the quick response.

 

[Mrgoodwrench]

It looks like was on correct. But that sure looks like a poor design. Ill have to go the silicone route.

 

[boomers_influence]

mr
i would SHARE this pic and story,
with small engine warehouse.
thank you boomer

 

[arcam8123]

It looks like that adapter plate has been drilled out. There should be a cap screw there, not a bolt. (this is a Kohler single plate).

 

[Mrgoodwrench]

mr
i would SHARE this pic and story,
with small engine warehouse.
thank you boomer

I will but doubt they will be very helpfull. They have good prices but i have not found them helpfull in the past.

 

[boomers_influence]

mr
i,m back again.
an allan head cap screw should have
been used here.
the O.D. of the hole would
have been greatly reduced.
thank you. boomer

 

[arcam8123]

Here's a better shot of a Kohler single plate with and without the o ring in place.

 

[Mrgoodwrench]

But i now have a briggs

 

[Mrgoodwrench]

I wonder if all the retrofit kit plates look like mine

 

[gravely1964]

But i now have a briggs

Still should be the same. All are 3 bolts one allen head.

 

[arcam8123]

Did SEW include that plate with the kit?

 

[Mrgoodwrench]

I believe so its part of the kit.

 

[RDM]

While you've got everything apart, I'd suggest replacing the hex head bolt with a cap screw headed bolt like shown in Arcam's pictures. Get a good quality bolt if you need to buy one. McMaster Carr is where I go for most my hardware. Very reasonable and fast. The existing bolt with 3 has marks is a grade 5 or 5.5. Grade 8 would have a 6 hash marks on the face of the hex.

Replacing the hex bolt with a cap screw headed bolt will allow you to get that glob of rtv in there and then some and still let you get an allen wrench on it easily in the future if you ever need to get in there again. I'd suggest using some semi-rigid RTV. Something that won't compress too much once it cures. With the depth of that counterbore, a soft RTV likely won't seal too well. It may compress too much.

Here's another idea to ponder. If you replace the hex head bolt with a cap screw head, you'd have the round OD of the cap screw head inside the round OD of the counterbored hole. Maybe find some O-rings that match the OD of the counterbore. If you can find some thick o-rings and stack a few on top of each other, you'd have a nice sandwich of O-rings that may be more reliable than RTV. Could even use a little RTV to hold them in place during reassembly. Beyond your local automotive center, McMaster Carr has a great selection of o-rings (don't worry - I am not a McMaster Carr stock holder - just a frequent customer of their's). One that jumps out as a potential ideal solution for you is the "x-profile o-rings" on page 3523 of McMaster Carr's online catalog. Take a look and see what you think. That seems to have the potential to make a good seal for your application.

Good luck

 

[Mrgoodwrench]

While you've got everything apart, I'd suggest replacing the hex head bolt with a cap screw headed bolt like shown in Arcam's pictures. Get a good quality bolt if you need to buy one. McMaster Carr is where I go for most my hardware. Very reasonable and fast. The existing bolt with 3 has marks is a grade 5 or 5.5. Grade 8 would have a 6 hash marks on the face of the hex.

Replacing the hex bolt with a cap screw headed bolt will allow you to get that glob of rtv in there and then some and still let you get an allen wrench on it easily in the future if you ever need to get in there again. I'd suggest using some semi-rigid RTV. Something that won't compress too much once it cures. With the depth of that counterbore, a soft RTV likely won't seal too well. It may compress too much.

Here's another idea to ponder. If you replace the hex head bolt with a cap screw head, you'd have the round OD of the cap screw head inside the round OD of the counterbored hole. Maybe find some O-rings that match the OD of the counterbore. If you can find some thick o-rings and stack a few on top of each other, you'd have a nice sandwich of O-rings that may be more reliable than RTV. Could even use a little RTV to hold them in place during reassembly. Beyond your local automotive center, McMaster Carr has a great selection of o-rings (don't worry - I am not a McMaster Carr stock holder - just a frequent customer of their's). One that jumps out as a potential ideal solution for you is the "x-profile o-rings" on page 3523 of McMaster Carr's online catalog. Take a look and see what you think. That seems to have the potential to make a good seal for your application.

Good luck

Thanks you for taking the time to write such a well thought out and through answer. I will look into that as an option. Mike

 

[RDM]

Hi Mike,
You're welcome. As for the time to write it - no worries. It took me a few minutes of typing and a few mins to look up the o-rings on McMaster Carr. Far less time than what you've got invested in your challenge. And given the effort you've put into taking things apart, no doubt you only want to do this once. If it helps in the least, it's worth it. That's why we all congregate here - to help each other out.

If you've not dealt with McMaster Carr before, they are a great place to do business. Sometimes when I've placed an order I've gotten the hardware the next day - with std shipping. More typically 2-3 days, but they are fast and accurate. Good to deal with on the phone too if you have questions about anything (their tech department is where the experts are, but some sales staff are knowledgeable too). I typically just order everything online. Have a hoard of SS hardware that I've purchased from them over the years.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes. Rob

 

[Mikey4]

While you've got everything apart, I'd suggest replacing the hex head bolt with a cap screw headed bolt like shown in Arcam's pictures. Get a good quality bolt if you need to buy one. McMaster Carr is where I go for most my hardware. Very reasonable and fast. The existing bolt with 3 has marks is a grade 5 or 5.5. Grade 8 would have a 6 hash marks on the face of the hex.

Replacing the hex bolt with a cap screw headed bolt will allow you to get that glob of rtv in there and then some and still let you get an allen wrench on it easily in the future if you ever need to get in there again. I'd suggest using some semi-rigid RTV. Something that won't compress too much once it cures. With the depth of that counterbore, a soft RTV likely won't seal too well. It may compress too much.

Here's another idea to ponder. If you replace the hex head bolt with a cap screw head, you'd have the round OD of the cap screw head inside the round OD of the counterbored hole. Maybe find some O-rings that match the OD of the counterbore. If you can find some thick o-rings and stack a few on top of each other, you'd have a nice sandwich of O-rings that may be more reliable than RTV. Could even use a little RTV to hold them in place during reassembly. Beyond your local automotive center, McMaster Carr has a great selection of o-rings (don't worry - I am not a McMaster Carr stock holder - just a frequent customer of their's). One that jumps out as a potential ideal solution for you is the "x-profile o-rings" on page 3523 of McMaster Carr's online catalog. Take a look and see what you think. That seems to have the potential to make a good seal for your application.

Good luck

Maybe alternate a double seal and a multi seal so as to have them interlock. The hope being to keep them aligned as you tighten them. O rings not in grooves have a way of shifting with pressure.

I was also going to suggest a carefully cut length of appropriate diameter heater hose to fill the gap.

 

[RDM]

Maybe alternate a double seal and a multi seal so as to have them interlock. The hope being to keep them aligned as you tighten them. O rings not in grooves have a way of shifting with pressure.

I was also going to suggest a carefully cut length of appropriate diameter heater hose to fill the gap.

Yup re the o-rings not seating properly or getting misaligned when compressed. Round cross section o-rings have a tendency to creep under pressure if they are not seated in a groove. That's why I suggested the x-cross section O-rings. They will sit flat and are far less prone to creep when you tighten them down, especially if they are thicker in cross-section which is what you need to fill the gap between the outside of the sock head cap and the counterbore wall.

McMaster Carr has some pretty thick o-rings in their catalog that may let you get buy with just using two (or maybe even just one if your lucky). I didn't look at all the sizes they carry because I don't know what dimensions you are dealing with. But they've got a lot to pick from and the price is reasonable. $5-$10 for a box, that should seal pretty good, verses RTV that MAY do it... hummm... Or - use both and have the RTV keep the o-rings in place while the o-rings help give substance to the RTV's sealing ability. IMHO, that's the best of all worlds solution - use both.

 

[Mrgoodwrench]

Well apparently it did not come this way from small engine warehouse because i see allens in the pic on there website.
http://www.smallenginewarehouse.com/386447-Gravely-4-R2.html?sc=17&category=1709961

So the PO must have stupidly bored it that way. I think i might make a small metal plug that would fit flush over the bolt head sealing the hole. I would also use a small amount of silicone on the seam. We will have to see. And i will upgrade the bolts. Ill let everyone know what happens.