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Discussion Starter #1
As I was taking apart my SB800 to get it ready for painting, I noticed that the augers were not turning. I had tested this before and they seems to be ok, but not they were stuck.

I drained the oil in the gear assembly, and noticed that the brass worm gear was pretty beat up. I have since disassembled the gear assembly, and have 8 out of the 20 teeth in the brass gear bad.

I am looking for a replacement gear. It looks like the parts breakdown of the SB1013B on boats.net shows a different gear and setup, as the inside of my housing has two bearings on the main auger shaft and the SB1013B doesn't have any. Also my owners manual parts breakdown of the SB800 looks a bit different. I can only conclude that they are not the same. It looks like I may need to track this part down though Kubota.

If anyone has the Honda part number for this or the Kubota one, that could help.

I also have the auger shaft out. I have two bearings on each side of the brass gear still attached. I am currently unable to pull these off, and I can't use a puller because the shaft is so long. I know that the brass gear is keyed. Any ideas on how to pull these bearings off without damaging them?
 

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do you know anyone with a hydraulic press?

length of the shaft won't make a difference when you can drop the "table" down as low as you need

maybe that will give you some ideas - plus given brass has a high expansion rate when heated, i'd put some low heat on the gear when pulling
 

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I just took a close look at the auger gearbox on my SB800 and noticed it doesn't match the drawings in my manual or the info on the SB1013B. My gearbox has a vent at the top and the oil fill plug is half way down on the side, not near the top. I wonder if Honda made a change and never bothered to update the manual.

Without taking my auger apart I can't offer suggestions on getting the ball bearings off. I am also assuming the ball bearings are inside the auger box. The shaft must be stepped or undersized to allow removal. It would be crazy to have to push the bearing 2 feet on the shaft.

A tool like this one might work, but it is just my guess.

http://www.tooldesk.com/automotive/ATD3056-5-ton-Bar-Type-Puller-Bearing-Seperator-Splitter-Set.aspx
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Mine also has the vent on the top and the filler on the front. Drain on bottom. Bearings are inside. My SB800 manual shows this also, plus the gear itself. That was all that was inside of mine on the auger shaft.

Will look into a press, heat or other tools. Need to be able to get a replacement part first. I can cut the gear off if I have to, but I would like to save the bearings.

Its almost like I need a ball joint separator, pickle fork. Then use that to move the bearing down with a bit for force.
 

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This is slightly off topic, but related.

I decided to change out the auger gear box oil and look for any problems with the gears. After draining the oil and looking for brass, I did find metallic fuzz in the drain plug cavity but no chunks. I refilled it with Mobile1 75W90 synthetic gear lubricant, about 10 oz, and the fill plug was on the front of the box.

Honda recommends AGMA (American Gear Manufactures Association) 5 EP (Extreme Pressure) or 90 wt. hypoid gear oil. I was curious about the specs of the AGMA and found several links that indicated it is used in enclosed gearboxes, but found this should not be used with brass gears.

This quote came from Cenex: http://www.elburncoop.com/Uploads/AGMA_EP.pdf

"Worm gear sets that are comprised entirely
of steel, or ferrous, components typically
accept an AGMA style of gear oil readily.
Worm gear sets that contain copper, brass,
bronze, or other red and yellow metal alloys
generally should not use an AGMA style of
gear lubricant."

Do you think that Honda used steel gears in the older snowblowers before the SB800? The Mobile 1 oil I used does not meet the requirements of AGMA 5 EP. More searching has shown the reason the AGMA oil is used in worm gear applications is because of the high sliding action causing oil shear and non-AGMA oils will cause extra wear. I will stick with the Mobile 1 and check for more fuzz when I drain again in 5 years. :)

One last thing I found was that gear tooth breakage is almost always caused by shock loads. This makes me think that it is important to use the correct grade shear bolts in the augers and I will stop trying to grind up ice. Hope you have luck finding a replacement gear.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
More great info.

I have found that the difference between the SB800 and the SB800A is the gearbox. I have the A version, so they gearbox parts currently available is not sold individually. Even the Kubota version of the gearbox is the newer one (non A version). The gears are different and may or may not be engineered to work. I have contacted RAD to see if they have any parts or ideas. I am trying to find out if the SB800 has a entire gearbox assembly available, and if so is it 100% interchangeable with the SB800A. More on this later.

I believe I have found a source on a new SB800A gearbox, so at least I will have a working blower.

When looking for issues with your drive, it will be the bottom wheel, this is 1 inch across and brass. You can see it from the front fill plug and bottom drain plug. Turn it an look at the teeth. If they are ALL not the same, then there is potential for problem. There are 20 teeth on the SB800A unit. Turn the input shaft by hand, there should be no hangups where you have to force it to turn, if there is, it is a most likely a bad spot on the gear and it will only get worse.

This problem is lessened by the use of the correct type sheer pins. They are there to protect this gear and for safety.

The top worm gear is steel, the bottom one is always brass. Mobile 1 contains the EP sulfates that will corrode the brass gear. It is also a multi-weight oil. I chose not to use it.

I have purchased Quicksilver Gear Lube at Westmarine. Finding info if it has the EP additives of sulfur or phosphates in it has been very hard, but at least it is a straight weight 90.
 

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Great thread, along with the other similar one that the SB1013B might be a source for parts.

To clarify, the SB800 is the newer model and the parts of the SB1013B are interchangeable with it?

I know I do have these issues:

(1) The Auger is rusted on to the auger shaft, on one side and I have removed the shear pin, and have tried to loosen it to no avail - my feeling is the rust bond > shear pin strength, which might not be a good thing.

(2) At times in heavy snow, I noticed that the augers stop spinning - at least I think they do, my neighbor once said the auger's were not spinning but the fan blade was?? I don't think that is possible - hopefully if the augers don't spin - that mean clutch belts driving PTO are slipping??

other than that the unit seems to work well, I think I just have one fill vented fill plug on top, I can see the worm gear a little through that, will need to check if there is another lower plug that I can view the auger brass gear.

comments suggestions would be most welcome!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Great thread, along with the other similar one that the SB1013B might be a source for parts.

To clarify, the SB800 is the newer model and the parts of the SB1013B are interchangeable with it?
Yes most parts look compatible, for some reason the SB800A looks to be an and even older model.

Honda says that the gear housings between the SB800A and the SB800 can not be directly swapped. I am not sure this is 100% true.

I know I do have these issues:

(1) The Auger is rusted on to the auger shaft, on one side and I have removed the shear pin, and have tried to loosen it to no avail - my feeling is the rust bond > shear pin strength, which might not be a good thing.
This is not good, it should spin freely once the shear pin is removed. You may need to remove the complete assembly and have this pressed off. Once done clean up the auger shaft and keep it greased. ;) If you hit ice and other things that would cause the shear pin to break, you will damage your brass gear in the gearbox.

(2) At times in heavy snow, I noticed that the augers stop spinning - at least I think they do, my neighbor once said the auger's were not spinning but the fan blade was?? I don't think that is possible - hopefully if the augers don't spin - that mean clutch belts driving PTO are slipping??

other than that the unit seems to work well, I think I just have one fill vented fill plug on top, I can see the worm gear a little through that, will need to check if there is another lower plug that I can view the auger brass gear.

comments suggestions would be most welcome!
If the belt slips, the 2nd stage will stop spinning. The only way the 2nd stage will spin and not the blades is if both auger rod shear pins are broken, or your gear is bad.

Let us know how it goes.
 

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I assume you have taken your SB800A apart? If I wanted to remove Augers, would I start by taking apart the gearbox assembly? If you have yours apart how did you go about it?

I also wonder if anyone has tried to source new brass gears? Maybe even another worm/drive gear combination that would fit the shafts?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I assume you have taken your SB800A apart? If I wanted to remove Augers, would I start by taking apart the gearbox assembly? If you have yours apart how did you go about it?

I also wonder if anyone has tried to source new brass gears? Maybe even another worm/drive gear combination that would fit the shafts?
You don't have to take apart the gearbox nor should you to remove the auger. The auger shaft is one piece. I did have to remove the chain and the 2ns stage blower on mine to remove. I would not go inside the gearbox unless your gear/gears are bad. At that point if you have an SB800 you buy the gearbox parts individually.

I have tried looking for the brass gear that I have, no luck finding one that will fit, but they should be out there.
 

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black88mx6, will you measure the brass gear that is damaged in your SB800A? I have found some sources for worm pinion gears and may be able to find a replacement. What I need is the outside diameter and number of teeth, the inside diameter or shaft diameter, and whether it is a right or left gear. To get the right or left info place the gear flat on a table in front of you and find if the teeth lean to the right or left. Also does this gear have a hub sticking out of one side or is it simply a disk? It may be possible to find an off-the -shelf replacement from a company like Boston Gear. They have gears made from bronze, Delrin plastic and cast iron. It sure would be nice to find a replacement for the unobtainable Honda gear.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Well after talking to RAD today, and reviewing the documentation they sent me. It looks like I have an SB800 (non-a) after all. SB800A's start with serial number 2414587 and up. Mine is stars with a 1 and is a very low number.
The BEST thing about the manuals is that they contain the RAD part numbers next to each item. ;)

My gearbox looks to be RAD part number 660842 based on the parts breakout and whats inside and out including the double lip oil seal. Even though some parts are the same inside, some are different like the oil seal and cases. This tells me that there are some differences between the 800 and 800A.

The gear is brass and looks a lot like the parts breakout pics from RAD. I can email those to you Dave if you wish. It is 3 inches outside diameter, 1 inch inside. Total length is 1 1/2 inches as it has 1/4 inch hubs on each side. Hub diameter 2 inches. It's has 20 teeth, and while flat they lean to the left.

These are estimates as I have yet to get the gear off the auger rod. I believe it will need to be pressed off.
 

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Well Honda does it again. Left hand worm gears are uncommon and "Special Order" from the sources I found. A right hand gear in the size you indicated are over $100 and I wont even guess what a custom gear will cost.

I would like a copy of the info you found on the gearbox when you get a chance.
 

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Hi Dave,
I am in Mass too - if I ever get mine apart I will be sure to post the gear specs, any other solutions/options for gear box whether they be a direct replacement or perhaps replace them in pairs worm/drive would be great. If we were to put in a right hand worm gear - the augers would push snow away?

I checked my model number and it said SB800A, but I will also check the serial number.

black88->
Are you able to buy parts direct from RAD? Do you need to call them and speak French? They are in Quebec no?

My unit still works, so guess I will just top the oil and keep going for now, have a nice 60" plow as backup.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
So far the only option is to purchase the 800A gearbox complete. Mine should be coming in shortly. This can be purchased directly though RAD or Honda. RAD has an 800 number, and they also speak English (just ask politely).

RAD prices are a bit less than Honda, but not sure what shipping costs will be.

I have the RAD parts manual for the SB800 and SB800A, PM me your email and I will send it to you. With this you can order the correct part from RAD. They take credit card.

My auger rod is bare, and the gear is off. Ready for the new gearbox. Re-painting my unit, hopefully will be done this weekend.
 

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I almost called RAD once, I have a neighbor who speaks French and was more than happy to call. I think having a backup gearbox might be a GOOD idea!

Glad to see you got the gear off - I assume you had to press it off?

Anybody else out there with a auger rusted to their shaft??
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I almost called RAD once, I have a neighbor who speaks French and was more than happy to call. I think having a backup gearbox might be a GOOD idea!

Glad to see you got the gear off - I assume you had to press it off?

Anybody else out there with a auger rusted to their shaft??
Gear and bearings were pressed off. They came off easy. You really need to get that auger spinning freely on that shaft with the sheer pin out. The auger should give you plenty of leverage to turn it.
 

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The problem is that I would need some way to hold the auger shaft - I was scared about putting to much stress on the gearbox - for example holding the other auger while wacking the stuck auger..
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I would use the 2nd sheer pin hole (remove that sheer pin) to hold the rod, then knock it free. This would not put much force on the gearbox when hitting it.

You might really need to take it apart, so that you can clean the rust off the rod anyways.
 

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Yes, I think I might have to take it apart, I was worried a good wack will cause it turn a little but not really move freely.

One other stupid question from me today, I appreciate your patience, does the drive shaft (part 13) come with the gearbox assembly or do you have to put that on?
 
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