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Discussion Starter #1
I'm new to the forum - first post. I have the engine out and intend to replace the timing belt, coils and water pump - all are on order. Short story - the tractor, after not being used for a couple weeks simply cranked but would not start. No Spark, so I assumed coils. Proved by testing resistance after pulling the engine to get to them. While the motor is out I'm considering also replacing the 21 year old starter motor. Can this be removed without having to remove the crankshaft and camshaft pulleys and the inner engine cover? AND has anyone been able to buy the original Denso motor without having the $300++ that Honda wants. I think the Denso part number is 9702889-028.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
OK - but can I pull the starter without having to remove the 2 pulleys and the inner cover?
 

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The cover had to come off. Others have done it after removing the floor boards, I've only ever done it removing the engine
Honestly removing the engine isn't a big deal, no where near as big of a deal as some make it out to be.
You will be able to kill a few birds with one stone.
1. Coolant flush. More than likely you will remove coolant hoses, might as well do it now.

2. With the timing belt cover off, you can check condition of the belt and oil pump gear which is made of plastic.


The last time I did it, it was honestly about an hour and a half to pull the engine.

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Discussion Starter #5
The plastic cover is off and I'm waiting for parts to arrive: timing belt, water pump (and that o-ring), and ignition coils (the reason the little beast wouldn't start). I also will be replacing both coolant hoses and will flush when everything is back together. AND will be replacing the PTO drive pulley (crazy $$$$). It looks like the starter is bolted through the left rear engine mount so if I pull the 2 starter motor mounting bolts I will also be unbolting the engine mount from the engine case. I have the engine sitting on a furniture dolly propped up with 2x4 pieces to keep the oil pan from hitting the garage floor. I would rather not have to remove both camshaft and crankshaft pulleys just to get the inner steel cover off. Has anyone replaced the starter by not having to remove that "stuff"? Jack up the engine so it's not sitting on the engine mounts and go to work?
 

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You don't have to remove the pulleys if memory serves me right. The bolts should be accessible when you turn them.
Then again, my memory is slowly going to sh*t, lol sadly I'm only 34.
If you attach a picture of it I Will be able to better tell you.

Also, kudos for going through the proper process and procedure rather than junking it. Most I see for sale, are from folks that don't want to bother replacing the starter.

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I also will be replacing both coolant hoses and will flush when everything is back together.
At least, flush the radiator while it's disconnected. I was shocked at how much debris & sediment I got out of my 4518 radiator by alternately putting the pressure washer wand in the radiator inlet & outlet while it was lying flat on the driveway. I kept switching from inlet to outlet until the water came out cleanly from the the other side. Also, my bottom four to five rows of cooling fins were plugged up on the outside as well as the entire perimeter where the protective screen frame blocked airflow.

While I was at it, I used engine degreaser on the engine compartment and frame then the pressure washer to clean up all the areas of my tractor I could not access when the engine was installed. I sure do like working on squeaky clean equipment!
 

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At least, flush the radiator while it's disconnected. I was shocked at how much debris & sediment I got out of my 4518 radiator by alternately putting the pressure washer wand in the radiator inlet & outlet while it was lying flat on the driveway. I kept switching from inlet to outlet until the water came out cleanly from the the other side. Also, my bottom four to five rows of cooling fins were plugged up on the outside as well as the entire perimeter where the protective screen frame blocked airflow.



While I was at it, I used engine degreaser on the engine compartment and frame then the pressure washer to clean up all the areas of my tractor I could not access when the engine was installed. I sure do like working on squeaky clean equipment!
He already is going to flush, he already said he will once everything is connected. More than likely will run a flush solution through the closed system. I did the same and it got an incredible amount of crap out.

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Discussion Starter #9
Still awaiting parts - from Boatnet. They've been pretty good in the past about locating and shipping parts. Yes, the radiator and the engine water jacket will get flushed once everything's back together. This way I hope to remove all the crap that's sitting in all the little recesses of the cooling system - engine and rad. After looking at how the starter motor is bolted on it looks like the bolts also hold the left rear engine mount in place. Very typical Honda design - I own 3 1970's in-line four motorcycles with similar traits. As a matter of fact, after working on this tractor for 20+ years there's a lot of design and engineering similarities between my bikes and the tractor, brake adjustment same as the rear brake on the bikes, similar ignition system - except the coils on the bikes are mounted on the frame but still get their charge from a stator/magnito. The bikes use a timing CHAIN, why Honda went with a belt kinda sucks - but that's where their automotive design principles come to our tractors. Crazy hybrid little beast from a design/engineering standpoint. My friends who actually still mow their own lawns are constantly amazed/impressed with me on a 2-cylinder overhead cam liquid cooled shaft drive hydrostatic machine mowing the lawn. The only things it's missing (in order of importance) - XM Radio, GPS (so you don't get lost on your lawn), drink holder. ;-)
 

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Still awaiting parts - from Boatnet.
I believe your referencing www.Boats.net

Yes, the radiator and the engine water jacket will get flushed once everything's back together.
I'll repeat my suggestion from before, and I know you fully intend to flush it, but I think you should take the opportunity to flush the radiator separately from the engine with way more water than the engine can flow. My 4518 has, I think, the same radiator and I was VERY glad I flushed in on the ground after my water pump replacement. I would estimate the bottom 3 inches of radiator was jammed with sediment but my coolant looked clean. I laid the radiator on the driveway, connections up, and alternated the pressure washer between the inlet and outlet and it took a good five minutes for the water to run clean out the other end. I followed up with wide open garden hose flush (more volume) to finish it off until the water ran clean out the other end. I can imagine just the engine waterpump being able to move enough water to dislodge all that buildup. No way... My good friend owns a radiator shop and I watch him use a combination water/compressed air blow nozzle on radiators all the time and they will suddenly let loose with a gallon of sludge & sediment.

I'm talking about the inside, buy my outside fins were also plugged up all the way around the perimeter where the protective screen frame guards it from me cleaning it every month or so during the season.
 

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I believe your referencing www.Boats.net







I'll repeat my suggestion from before, and I know you fully intend to flush it, but I think you should take the opportunity to flush the radiator separately from the engine with way more water than the engine can flow. My 4518 has, I think, the same radiator and I was VERY glad I flushed in on the ground after my water pump replacement. I would estimate the bottom 3 inches of radiator was jammed with sediment but my coolant looked clean. I laid the radiator on the driveway, connections up, and alternated the pressure washer between the inlet and outlet and it took a good five minutes for the water to run clean out the other end. I followed up with wide open garden hose flush (more volume) to finish it off until the water ran clean out the other end. I can imagine just the engine waterpump being able to move enough water to dislodge all that buildup. No way... My good friend owns a radiator shop and I watch him use a combination water/compressed air blow nozzle on radiators all the time and they will suddenly let loose with a gallon of sludge & sediment.



I'm talking about the inside, buy my outside fins were also plugged up all the way around the perimeter where the protective screen frame guards it from me cleaning it every month or so during the season.
The way that the flush solution works, requires that it be run at operating temps. I.e. closed loop system. Your pour the entire contents in and run it for a few days. Then at that point dump and flush. Whatever sediment and or sludge will be removed.

Yes, your method will work without a doubt but with that, so will the method mentioned above.
There's more than one way to skin the cat/flog the horse. Ultimately both will have the same outcome.

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I believe your referencing www.Boats.net







I'll repeat my suggestion from before, and I know you fully intend to flush it, but I think you should take the opportunity to flush the radiator separately from the engine with way more water than the engine can flow. My 4518 has, I think, the same radiator and I was VERY glad I flushed in on the ground after my water pump replacement. I would estimate the bottom 3 inches of radiator was jammed with sediment but my coolant looked clean. I laid the radiator on the driveway, connections up, and alternated the pressure washer between the inlet and outlet and it took a good five minutes for the water to run clean out the other end. I followed up with wide open garden hose flush (more volume) to finish it off until the water ran clean out the other end. I can imagine just the engine waterpump being able to move enough water to dislodge all that buildup. No way... My good friend owns a radiator shop and I watch him use a combination water/compressed air blow nozzle on radiators all the time and they will suddenly let loose with a gallon of sludge & sediment.



I'm talking about the inside, buy my outside fins were also plugged up all the way around the perimeter where the protective screen frame guards it from me cleaning it every month or so during the season.
Also word to the wise and I'm sure you already know, that pressurizing an older cooling system can potentially compromise it and accelerate any potential pin hole leaks and such. I'm speaking more toward utilizing a pressure washer in that situation.

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Honestly I would not do either method. IMO as old as these things are getting I would do a simple drain, fill with distilled water, drain and refill tot he correct concentration. Given the destruction a pressure washer can do there is no way I would stick a PW wand in the radiator (or anywhere else for that matter) given that I have actually had my washer cut open rubber hoses accidentally.
 

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Fair enough, although the method using a radiator specific flush is tough enough to get the crap out without ruining your cooling system. I've used it on some old crapped on stuff, run it for a while and you're amazed at what comes out.

But yeah the power washing is a bad idea, id never do it but to each his own

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I would NOT use any chemical flush in the machine either. Simple flushing and refilling with distilled water is fine. The cooling system on that little engine is WAY over engineered anyway. Chemical flushes used in aluminum is very harsh. When I had my machine apart this past summer I checked and flushed the radiator out and found none of the stuff described in it. I think it may be from people not using distilled water or proper coolant mix
 

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I would NOT use any chemical flush in the machine either. Simple flushing and refilling with distilled water is fine. The cooling system on that little engine is WAY over engineered anyway. Chemical flushes used in aluminum is very harsh. When I had my machine apart this past summer I checked and flushed the radiator out and found none of the stuff described in it. I think it may be from people not using distilled water or proper coolant mix
The cooling system is not "way over engineered" as you said. it's no different/ more complicated than any basic car from since we'll whenever they started liquid cooling engine. Water flush will do nothing for a system that has any sort of sediment, scaling etc. The chemical solution is more than okay to use with aluminum.
Specifically the prestone brand.
I've used it in both of my Honda tractors one of which I ran all summer long with water/solution and I forgot to drain it out...it did remove a ton of crud though once I finally drained it. My Honda motorcycle and 2x on my alum head Toyota with 326k miles....no issues whatsoever



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I had a 4514 and my starter failed I saw on other posts and was able to change the failed brushes without removing the starter.


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The cooling system is not "way over engineered" as you said. it's no different/ more complicated than any basic car from since we'll whenever they started liquid cooling engine. Water flush will do nothing for a system that has any sort of sediment, scaling etc. The chemical solution is more than okay to use with aluminum.
Specifically the prestone brand.
I've used it in both of my Honda tractors one of which I ran all summer long with water/solution and I forgot to drain it out...it did remove a ton of crud though once I finally drained it. My Honda motorcycle and 2x on my alum head Toyota with 326k miles....no issues whatsoever



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By over engineered I did not mean complicated only that it has far more than enough capacity for the engine.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Sorry folks - haven't caught up to the discussion till now. Other house maintenance matters...
After I pulled the radiator I soaked it overnight in water, mostly to loosen up all the junk in between the fins. Of course the water also got into the radiator and sort of acted as a flush - albeit with zero pressure. When I emptied the radiator a lot of crud free-flowed out both the inlet and outlet. I'm sure the radiator was designed to hold a certain amount of pressure but I think using the water pump's pressure after everything gets put back together (where are my parts Boat.net???) will lead to more stuff coming out.
 

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Sorry folks - haven't caught up to the discussion till now. Other house maintenance matters...

After I pulled the radiator I soaked it overnight in water, mostly to loosen up all the junk in between the fins. Of course the water also got into the radiator and sort of acted as a flush - albeit with zero pressure. When I emptied the radiator a lot of crud free-flowed out both the inlet and outlet. I'm sure the radiator was designed to hold a certain amount of pressure but I think using the water pump's pressure after everything gets put back together (where are my parts Boat.net???) will lead to more stuff coming out.
Yeah you didn't miss much if anything really. But yeah run the solution with water once you get it back together. Moreso than the water pressure, it's the operating temps in combination with the solution that will help loosen and get rid of whatever garbage is in there.

Did you ever figure out how to pull off the starter without removing the crank pulley?



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