[JD_420_For_Me]

I was able to pull the engine out of my 420 tonight (thanks for everyone's advice on the previous belt tension issue). Now, I need to remove the PTO clutch/exhaust system, then intake manifold (in hopes of rebuilding the carb). I was able to remove the PTO armature, then the rotor. I now need to remove the key to get the remaining components of the clutch off so I can access the muffler bolt heads. The key seems pretty stuck in there. Reading other threads, it looks like the first step will be to pick up some penetrating oil tomorrow and get that working. Any other thoughts on tackling this?

Pic attached.

 

[Junky]

Vise grips and side cutters are two tools that I would use in that situation.

 

[CantKeepUp]

I learned this trick while trying to remove the flexplate bolts from my truck engine/tranny. There were up in a small space and tight as as all get-out. I had bent one allen-wrench and snapped another until I you-tubed this trick: Place an air chisel on the side of the bolt head and "chisel" for 10 seconds or so. No damage to the heads or bolts and the bolts all came right out.

So similar concept - Get chisel or other solid piece of metal that would allow you to tap on the key with a hammer. Effectively, you're just trying to vibrate the key loose, so many small taps - no large thunks. I would tap on the top of the key and the side of the key. I would not tap inward on the key because that might wedge it. Again - tapping for vibration - not hard enough to disfigure the key or cause other damage to the engine shaft.

 

[JD_420_For_Me]

Vise grips and side cutters are two tools that I would use in that situation.

How would you go about it?

 

[JD_420_For_Me]

I learned this trick while trying to remove the flexplate bolts from my truck engine/tranny. There were up in a small space and tight as as all get-out. I had bent one allen-wrench and snapped another until I you-tubed this trick: Place an air chisel on the side of the bolt head and "chisel" for 10 seconds or so. No damage to the heads or bolts and the bolts all came right out.

So similar concept - Get chisel or other solid piece of metal that would allow you to tap on the key with a hammer. Effectively, you're just trying to vibrate the key loose, so many small taps - no large thunks. I would tap on the top of the key and the side of the key. I would not tap inward on the key because that might wedge it. Again - tapping for vibration - not hard enough to disfigure the key or cause other damage to the engine shaft.

I might try that after I give the penetrating oil some time to, well, penetrate. Should I be buying a brass hammer? I've seen mrbeef using one in a few of his videos. Wondering if a brass hammer would be a good choice in this situation because it involves applying blunt force to the key - which is a pretty critical part.

 

[inspectorudy]

I use carb cleaner and a penetrating oil together for rapid and deep penetration. Spray the carb cleaner in the cracks first and then spray the penetrate next. Give it a few minutes and then TAP the sides, both, of the key with a brass punch. Do not distort the key or you will truly have issues removing it. If needed you can apply a little heat to the shaft but not the coil plate. Good luck.

 

[Junky]

How would you go about it?

Using a side cutter with a sharp cutting edge, grab the key head on as low as you can. Then use it like a lever trying to wiggle it up and down. If you can get some movement a vice grip locked on will easily pull it backwards. Also a pry bar behind the Vise grip jaw will exert quite a bit of force. Tapping with a brass drift on the sides of the key while using penetrant may help too.

 

[Smalljob]

Interesting. In my experience you need to get all the parts off before getting the key out. Pretty tough to get it out with all 4 sides in contact for about 3/4 of the key.


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[hgl1]

As said above vise grips or a pair of good sharp side cutters and then pry on the back side of the tool should make it come out. A good soaking with penetrating oil will likely help. A small tapered punch on the side of the key will allow small perfectly directed TAPS on the key as opposed to a hammer which may or may not hit it directly. Actual use has shown this to be true (don't ask how I know) and does not make any marks on the crank making it harder to remove the pulley )o;
It has been a while since I had one off but if I remember correctly the back of the slot the of the actual channel for the key is not square cut and will actually drive it tighter to the pulley. I wouldn't tap the key back towards the engine. There may be a "washer" back there that should stop it but I am not 100% sure and that's why I wouldn't.
Besides if it does go back much further you have just used up another option for getting it apart as you will no longer be able to get a hold of it.
From what I recall once you have the 4 clutch mounting bolts undone they will come free and then slide off without a lot of force sometimes leaving the key in the crank and sometimes with the clutch.
If the key does not come out easily I wouldn't force it much but if it does come out you may be able to turn the pulley a bit and cause it to become looser on the crank and make it easier to slide off.
These clutches engage "with a bang" and if there is enough room to easily slide things together when they are assembled there is some amount albeit a small amount of movement each time they are engaged and should not get so stuck they will not come off. By the looks of your picture they should not be rusted together.

 

[JD_420_For_Me]

I use carb cleaner and a penetrating oil together for rapid and deep penetration. Spray the carb cleaner in the cracks first and then spray the penetrate next. Give it a few minutes and then TAP the sides, both, of the key with a brass punch. Do not distort the key or you will truly have issues removing it. If needed you can apply a little heat to the shaft but not the coil plate. Good luck.

Thanks - nice tip on carb cleaner first. I had previously wondered if the same principle as soldering copper pipe would work (heat first, then spray penetrating oil hoping that the thermal effect would draw it into the seized joint). It was a good idea until the realization that introducing a crazy-flammable compound to a flame-rich environment might not be so smart.

 

[MARK (LI)]

It does not look like you have a lot to work with at all, but this is one of the few applications for which I would use vise grips....try to grip it with the grips.....if you have, or can borrow or rent a slide hammer, hook the vise grips and not hard, but sharply "shock" it with short frequent slides of the weight and see if it works...I offer this in the event that the tapping with a small chisel or a drift r punch does not work...that key should be pretty soft, so I don't think that a brass hammer would be effective...when replacing that key use a new one and maybe apply some Thread Eze....it is a product that has graphite in it ..Permatex makes a product similar to it , I think it is just called anti seize compound...that will help if you have to do this again in the future
Transmission fluid mixed with a small amount of acetone will help as a penetrant
Good luck and let us know how it went...it would be interesting to know what worked

 

[inspectorudy]

I would go for the gear puller on the coil plate after using a lot of penetrant on the shaft and key. There is a lot of surface area on the coil to pull on compared to the little on the key.

 

[JD_420_For_Me]

It's been quite the morning.

After letting the PB'laster penetrant sit overnight, I was able to wiggle the key out using the vise grips / gentle taps method. I happily proceeded to get the rest of the PTO clutch off, remove the muffler, exhaust pipes, and intake manifold.

Then, disaster.

I removed the two mounting bolts from the underside of the manifold, then applied gentle pressure to pop the carb off. Turns out there was a hairline crack in the manifold and a huge chunk crumbled off the moment the carb came off. Dang it.

I'm searching for a replacement now. Can this sort of thing be put back together with liquid gasket or something? Any other ideas??

 

[RussKish]

Call boomer at boomersonanparts.com or the 2nd place is Onanparts.com get a replacement manifold. It is cast aluminum 2 piece manifold. It is subject to a lot of heat/vibration. Would not want any more to crumble and end up in the engine.

 

[JD_420_For_Me]

Thanks Russ. I sent emails to both onanparts and boomer just now. Onanparts shows sold out, but sounds like there's a possibility they aren't. Hoping like heck I can find a replacement.

I'm now wondering if this crack is the source of the engine surging I've been trying to solve. I guess we'll find out.

 

[RussKish]

Could be. Keep us posted.