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Citizen of Earth
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Just Jeff - Now that you have 10 ways from Sunday to find that corner, you need to put on your industrial strength DEET and mosquito netting and find that corner! We're all waiting with bated breath for the results :eek:

Actually this has been a fun and challenging post, identifying info and sources and methods to do this. I am retired over 13 years from doing this stuff, and I was pretty old school even then.
One interesting thing is how much folks rely on technology that is unreliable - like believing that a GPS will get you to a pinpoint on the ground. It's great stuff, but everything has its limitations.
This thread brought back many good memories for me. I worked summers as a part timer with a land surveyor back in the early 1970's when I was a teenager. That would be the very early days of LASERS and radio distancing. I have fond memories of "pulling chain" along thousand plus foot long property lines, 100' at a time. And I have many not so fond memories of being eating by various insects that both fly and crawl. I also remember the boss taking our field notes and doing the calculations to make sure our survey "closed". The distances measured and the internal angles are computed out to prove we ended at the same point we started from (a good thing!). A four sided property was easy, the angles add up to 360 degrees and the geometry wasn't too tough to calculate. The properties with a dozen or more sides and a couple of radii tossed in for fun got complex pretty quick.
 
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This thread brought back many good memories for me. I worked summers as a part timer with a land surveyor back in the early 1970's when I was a teenager. That would be the very early days of LASERS and radio distancing. I have fond memories of "pulling chain" along thousand plus foot long property lines, 100' at a time. And I have many not so fond memories of being eating by various insects that both fly and crawl. I also remember the boss taking our field notes and doing the calculations to make sure our survey "closed". The distances measured and the internal angles are computed out to prove we ended at the same point we started from (a good thing!). A four sided property was easy, the angles add up to 360 degrees and the geometry wasn't too tough to calculate. The properties with a dozen or more sides and a couple of radii tossed in for fun got complex pretty quick.
Degrees still add up to 360 regardless the number of bends. Always a good thing to know.
 

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Will I found the problem. Will not yet NW corner N88°41'45"W can not be 88 some degrees south of NE corner N01°01'88"E. Things just don't work that way with an object almost rectangular. That would make the parcel one skewed parallelogram. If they have the SW corner confused with the NW corner this would be more a reality.
I am not sure what you are saying here, but after I read it, I looked at my plat drawing and noted that I wrote the wrong bearing to the left of the Star at the SE corner of the tract. That bearing should be N88 41' 45"W (not E). Since they used bearings, not azimuths, in the old survey, it can be more confusing. For example, N 88 41'45"W is azimuth 271 deg 18'15", or a line just over one degree off due west.
 

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Degrees still add up to 360 regardless the number of bends. Always a good thing to know.
The internal angles of a triangle add up to 180. A pentagon shape has internal angles that add up to 540 degrees. The more sides, the higher the number goes. And adding in a radius or two that borders a bend in the road, or worse, a wobbly line that follows a river goes well above my ability to compute.
 

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I am not sure what you are saying here, but after I read it, I looked at my plat drawing and noted that I wrote the wrong bearing to the left of the Star at the SE corner of the tract. That bearing should be N88 41' 45"W (not E). Since they used bearings, not azimuths, in the old survey, it can be more confusing. For example, N 88 41'45"W is azimuth 271 deg 18'15", or a line just over one degree off due west.
Look at the posted north bearings. The north east is at 00° and the north west at 88°. That would make the north east and north west corners almost 90° to each other when they should be about parallel to Beechwood.
(NE,SE) (NW,SW) vertical from north and Beechwood. I am not familiar with crisscross locations. Maybe Michigan does things differently. But there are national standards.
 

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Some GIS maps will give you the Lat/Long for the point where the cursor is. If you record the coordinates from the map you can use a phone with a GPS to get within 30 feet although some phones are accurate to within 10 feet (just like a hand held GPS) Commercial Grade GPS's are accurate below 10 feet and Survey Grade GPS's are good down to a fraction of an inch.
 

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Discussion Starter · #87 ·
Hey guys, I really appreciate all of the help. I'm down in Wausau for the day for several doctor's appointments, and it will be about evening by the time I get home. So, I will put everybody's recommendations to practice in the morning. I'm hoping I can find an actual surveyor's marker when I find the corner, but I'm skeptical, as the only other actual, PHYSICAL surveyor's marker that I've seen so far, is the one in the SW corner "C" on my hand-drawn map. The others are all "assumptions", based on looking at the surveyor's map that we inherited from the previous owners.

@CCMoe, yes I know Lake Gogebic well. I've sledded and ice fished there. It's only 35-40 miles from me.

@ZTT42, yes exactly. We're currently trying a chemical called "Sawyer". My BIL says that it's supposed to be good for ticks and misquotes. I'm not sold on it's misquotes effectiveness yet, but it does seem to work for ticks pretty well. And that SE corner is pretty unexplored up to this point, as it's "in the jungle" LOL. I WILL get on it tomorrow, after I deal with these doctor's appointments today.

I want to thank EVERYBODY for their help in assisting me with this. I hope that it was more of a "fun challenge" for you guys vs. unenjoyable "work". I get the impression that you guys had fun using your different techniques to resolve the problem, and applying math that maybe we haven't used in years!
 

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(NE,SE) (NW,SW) vertical from north and Beechwood. I am not familiar with crisscross locations. Maybe Michigan does things differently. But there are national standards.
Everything in the legal description follows the PLSS national standard. I followed the notes to make the drawing. It's possible you are misinterpreting my labels. The property is one of the two tracts in the SW1/4SW1/4 Section 19, T43N, R35W. They reference the survey to the SW corner of sec 19, a monumented verified point. Then they go 1/4 mile north to the NW corner of the SW1/4SW1/4 sec 19. Next they make a 90 degree turn and go east to the NW corner of the tract they are surveying. Then they survey the rectangular tract. All the bearings are little over 1 degree off true N, S, E, W; not unusual when trying to paste a square on to a globe.
 

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Everything in the legal description follows the PLSS national standard. I followed the notes to make the drawing. It's possible you are misinterpreting my labels. The property is one of the two tracts in the SW1/4SW1/4 Section 19, T43N, R35W. They reference the survey to the SW corner of sec 19, a monumented verified point. Then they go 1/4 mile north to the NW corner of the SW1/4SW1/4 sec 19. Next they make a 90 degree turn and go east to the NW corner of the tract they are surveying. Then they survey the rectangular tract. All the bearings are little over 1 degree off true N, S, E, W; not unusual when trying to paste a square on to a globe.
It's odd they have their (POB) point of beginning in the northeast corner. I tried going online to figure out the GSI layout. No I am not paying for a class. Guess I an just use to see things given from longitude and latitude.
 

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I've been following along with interest.
I've done some of what you are doing, but on a smaller scale,
at home I needed to know the N border, but it's 500' and you can't see corner to corner,
and at the cabin, 1 corner has a post, but the lot is 1800 ft deep and stops in the middle of a swamp, for me only reachable when it is frozen.

Good luck,
 

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I tried going online to figure out the GSI layout. No I am not paying for a class. Guess I an just use to see things given from longitude and latitude.
GIS is just mapping software that people have adapted to whatever purpose they need. They take a bunch of mapping data, stack it up in the computer and index it so you can select parts you want to reference. In this case, we're looking at some satellite or aerial photos overlaid with roads and other labeled geographic things, Then layers of the PLSS, subdivision property lines, owner titles, tax information, original survey notes, county lines, fire districts, National Forest boundaries, a cursor Lat/Long reference and who knows what else.
Before GIS, any of these things would have been on paper files in someone's office (or several someone's). It's amazing to be able to look at it all in one place. I use our County's GIS to update owners names for our subdivision's little water system. They post things there right after any real estate transaction.
I don't know if anyone is interested in this stuff, but here is an article that tells how Michigan was originally surveyed. The SW corner of Section 19 would have been established in this survey - quite a while before Satellites, GPS and GIS. Other states are similar.

 

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GIS is just mapping software that people have adapted to whatever purpose they need. They take a bunch of mapping data, stack it up in the computer and index it so you can select parts you want to reference. In this case, we're looking at some satellite or aerial photos overlaid with roads and other labeled geographic things, Then layers of the PLSS, subdivision property lines, owner titles, tax information, original survey notes, county lines, fire districts, National Forest boundaries, a cursor Lat/Long reference and who knows what else.
Before GIS, any of these things would have been on paper files in someone's office (or several someone's). It's amazing to be able to look at it all in one place. I use our County's GIS to update owners names for our subdivision's little water system. They post things there right after any real estate transaction.
I don't know if anyone is interested in this stuff, but here is an article that tells how Michigan was originally surveyed. The SW corner of Section 19 would have been established in this survey - quite a while before Satellites, GPS and GIS. Other states are similar.

I got out of the business back when electronic files and the ability of file stacking was just starting to become common place. back then GIS was only used for project mapping so that someone else could create Cad, or MicroStation files. Way back when 3D after the fact drawing were just being created. That puts us back about 10 years.
 

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Discussion Starter · #94 ·
Okay guys, the wife found our copy of the survey. Here it is. There's a LOT of information on this thing! And based on the key, it appears that the property boundary in the SW corner is in fact, a piece of #5 rebar that's buried. So, without a metal detector, I'm not going to accurately know how to visibly mark our property boundary? That kind of sucks.

I'm also curious, why do they use several different types of markers on any given property, when a given single type could be used? And why ONLY have one buried, and not buried as well as something that's visible to the human eye? This doesn't make sense to me.

Attached are the pictures of the survey.
Rectangle Font Parallel Pattern Slope
Rectangle Slope Font Parallel Pattern
 

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Yep, saw that coming a while ago, and heaven help you if other steel is in the same area. You'll need Gary Drayton from Curse of Oak Island to come find it for you! 😁 "That's a top pocket find!"
 

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We have rebar rod at all four corners of our lot. But they stick up an inch or two above ground level and are easy to find visually.

I would be surprised if your surveyor pounded your markers down below the surface or even flush. They should be sticking up a bit. I would think if you got in the vicinity of that corner marker you could find it even without a metal detector.
 

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Three of your markers are in the roadway. For obvious reasons these can't be seen. The fourth is buried to protect it as in if you can't find it. It can't be moved. Even though it's illegal to move markers it surprising how often it happens.
Someone plants a tree on a property line and then moves or the neighbors want to put up a fence and the trees now in the way. Don't want to take out a now near grown shade tree so we will just mover the fence to the other side.
Also on open parsels that rebar could easily take out a tractor tire. Those are just a few examples.
 

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Discussion Starter · #98 ·
Thanks @UrbanTractor, I hope you're right! We'll find out shortly.

Now the next question. Now that I know what the final property marker is, and assuming I find it, how do I go about marking a relatively straight line from one side to the other on the East and South property lines? I want to put up a few of those green metal fence posts with some hi-vis orange or pink paint on them, every 200' or so, and use those as a reference point when cutting trail around the perimeter of the property, so that I can stay on my own property, and make sure I don't cut down any neighbor's trees etc.

I have the drone, with a remote drop kit, so that I can have the wife pick up some red handkerchiefs, or something like that from the Dollar Store, and then I can sew some fishing weights inside of them, to make sure they drop straight down, and not get carried away in the wind. But the tree canopy is pretty thick along both the East and South sides of the property, so I don't know if dropping the handkerchiefs from the air will work, or if they'll get caught up in the treetops. So, I'm not sure if that will work very well or not.
Rectangle Font Material property Parallel Pattern
Rectangle Slope Font Parallel Diagram
 

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Discussion Starter · #99 ·
Three of your markers are in the roadway. For obvious reasons these can't be seen. The fourth is buried to protect it as in if you can't find it. It can't be moved. Even though it's illegal to move markers it surprising how often it happens.
Someone plants a tree on a property line and then moves or the neighbors want to put up a fence and the trees now in the way. Don't want to take out a now near grown shade tree so we will just mover the fence to the other side.
Also on open parsels that rebar could easily take out a tractor tire. Those are just a few examples.
That makes sense @Ariens93GT20. Now, if you would please read my comment above, and possibly give me some advice on how to make a relatively straight line along those two stretches, I'd appreciate it. Thanks!
 

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Where are you finding the three markers at the roadways. In the center line of the road
or at 33' of right of way?
At the right of way I have approximately 1300.85' at Beechwood, 2598.89' at 1/4 of 1/4, 1307.08' parallel to Beechwood and 2600.96 parallel to 1/4 of 1/4
 
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