[tkskagen]

1990-1998 Craftsman (GT6000) Garden Tractors. Other than silver/grey/ or green paint, 3 - speed with high/Low vs. Hydro, and Vertical or Horizontal Shaft they are all the same right?

But, what is the advantage of having a horizontal or vertical Shaft, other than horsepower? More torque?

In your everyday use which one tickles your fancy and why?

 

[tkskagen]

Sorry, ment to attatched picture of tractor, not it's powerplant.

 

[GT_80]

frames are probably different gauges, different motor manuafacturers, different attachments, different manufacturers of the tractors...

I can't say if one is better than the other, but I tend to lean towards older. I believe they were built better.

 

[mightyraze]

I would guess the engine orientation is due to the trans-axle pulley?

 

[tkskagen]

So GT 80,
Older is better? You mean that my 1989 SEARS GT600 with its horizontal 18HP B&S apposed twin is going to be better than my 1994 Craftsman GT600 with its vertical 26HP Kohler V-twin?

 

[B440]

The heavy duty hi/low transaxles are the same for either engine. I think the hydro pulley is in the same location/orientation as the gear-drives. I prefer the verticals myself. Easier to find complete engines or replacements since they are all vertical now. Drive belt routing is very simple.

The horizontals are getting harder to find certain parts for. The drive belt mounts to a pulley that is driven from the air-intake side of the engine. The belt has to make some 90 degree turns with idler pulleys. Not a fan of that setup at all.

The only thing I forgot to look at, while I had these machines, was the steering. Both were good so I didn't bother to see which was better.

 

[chaunceyjb]

While I have no experience with the verticals, I have had a GT20 with the horizontal Onan since I bought it new in 1989. I believe it to be functionally the same as the early GT6000s, except many of the 6000s had Briggs or Kohler engines. I have come to believe that the 90 degree turn in the belts is a good thing. I think it's easier on the belts. I hear a lot of stories about vertical shaft mowers going through belts. I would think there would have to be side pressure on the belts if they're not in perfect alignment since you have two pulleys in the same plane. I usually go 5 or so years between belt changes, and my yard is 2-3 acres. And while I like the ease of use of the Hydro, I think the old Peerless 6 speed Hi-Low transmission is pretty bulletproof. I think most, if not all the hydros had vertical shaft motors.

 

[tkskagen]

Thanks for your input "chauncyjb"!
But where will get the most torque and reliability, my Kohler Magnum 18, or switching it over to my Kohler Command Pro OHV V-twin 25?
It's just nice to have options!

 

[3v0]

But, what is the advantage of having a horizontal or vertical Shaft, other than horsepower? More torque?

Cylinder orientation should not effect horsepower or torque. With a horizontal shaft engine you need a mule drive to drive a mower deck so it is cheaper to build a lawn tractor with a vertical engine.

 

[tkskagen]

But a good question from me is, how can I upgrade the "drum & band" brake?
Is there a way to upgrade it to a disc (like riding mowers have) or similar to the automotive type that are on four wheelers?
Some type of adapter on the hub to hold the disc and a hydraulic caliper on an arm...
Excuse my awkwardness, I'm just in the middle of my typical MIDNIGHT GEEKING session! I'm just an Engineer that is also a hobbyist mower mechanic.

 

[tkskagen]

Thanks 3v0!

 

[TUDOR]

Thanks for your input "chauncyjb"!
But where will get the most torque and reliability, my Kohler Magnum 18, or switching it over to my Kohler Command Pro OHV V-twin 25?
It's just nice to have options!

But a good question from me is, how can I upgrade the "drum & band" brake?
Is there a way to upgrade it to a disc (like riding mowers have) or similar to the automotive type that are on four wheelers?
Some type of adapter on the hub to hold the disc and a hydraulic caliper on an arm...
Excuse my awkwardness, I'm just in the middle of my typical MIDNIGHT GEEKING session! I'm just an Engineer that is also a hobbyist mower mechanic.

What type of Engineer? I'm an engineering technician, civil and mechanical.

Engine reliability is one thing, torque production is something totally different. There were 12 hp hydro GT's from the early '70's capable of matching the drive axle startup torque of V-8 powered cars with automatic transmissions, in theory, if enough ballast is added.

There are 2 different torque ratings for tractors. The torque developed by the engine through the reduction of the manual gear train to the rear axle, and the considerably higher torque developed, especially with the larger hydros, at the rear axle due to the combination of gear reduction and hydraulic equations.

High engine horsepower ratings are for powered implements. Except in the largest GT's, most hydros can't deliver more than 6-7 hp to the rear wheels, and LT's can't deliver more than 3 hp, but the torque that they can develop will spin the rear tires with ease, even with a reasonable amount of ballast.

Of note, the larger GT's with the more capable hydros all have horizontal crank engines, many of them connected via drive shaft direct to the hydro.

The brakes on lawn and garden tractors are primarily for parking, not stopping. On a manual transmission, retarding the throttle makes for very effective braking. As soon as you push down the brake pedal, you disconnect the engine from the transmission and freewheel while hoping the brake can stop the tractor. With a hydro, the drive control makes for an effective brake. When the brake pedal is pushed, the hydro is placed in the neutral position and the rear wheels stop immediately. The brake is unnecessary. Personally, I prefer to have some control over the rate of deceleration and use the drive control to slow to a stop, or even put the hydro in reverse while still moving forward if I want to stop in a hurry.

 

[tkskagen]

TUDOR,
I am an Environmental Engineer for job stability reasons, but I prefer Mechanical Engineering since I love "tweeking" on anything mechanical. (Yes, I know tweeking is mispelled, I consider it my word, no its not drug related)

I like my 3 manual transmission GT6000's. Mainly because I am confident that I can rebuild if necessary.

I am purchasing a 1994 GT6000 with a 26HP Vertical OHV Kohler Command and a Hydrostatic gearbox today for $150. I have never had the opprotunity to be able to "hands-on" see one before.

I am never satisfied with how things are "OEM", I always find a way to make it better (or my wife calls Tom'ed). She hates it!

 

[tkskagen]

For work, I am a Landscape Engineer and perform Landscape Construction for homeowners with too much money.
-Now for my problem with the OEM brakes. When I have my 12cf trailer full of 3/4" minus going up/down a grade, I need to downshift or come to an actual stop. These brakes SUCK and scare the **** out of me, hence my resons to "UPGRADE".
I figured that I could mount a disc and caliper on each hub and use hydraulic calipers with a small fluid resivor for reliability/sanity.
The problem persists with the operation of the brakes and separating the foot control from the "clutch" while keeping it CLEAN! I also want to install a trailer brake if necessary...

 

[tkskagen]

I know that it can be done, but there's a lot of R&D (research & development) and financial sanity involved.
Therefore it "MAY" happen and hopefully not be another one of my intended/unfinished projects...

 

[TUDOR]

Sounds like interesting work. I don't do aesthetics worth a darn, but I'm real good at pushing dirt around with my GT loader.

With a manual gear box, the engine has enough power to get that load up to speed when climbing a hill. It also has enough compression to slow it down while descending. It's working through about a 70 or 80:1 reduction in high gear and considerably more in the lower gears.

The nice thing about hydros is there are no gears to change, so there is no need to disconnect the engine from the rest of the drive train. The hydro drive control does it all, go forward, backward, accelerate, decelerate, and stop dead, all with one pedal, or lever, and full engine power available, at least to the hydro's capability of handling the power with the traction available. If it doesn't have the traction, brakes won't help either.

If you move upscale to the more capable John Deere tractors, mechanical turning brakes on both rear wheels were an option. You may find a shortage of reaction points for doing the same on your Craftsman. Those JD tractors have relatively large final drives and the axle housings are cast iron.

A word to the wise, courtesy of the over-the-road trucking fraternity. Use the same gear going down the hill that you have to use to go up the hill. One gear lower isn't a bad idea, either.

 

[GT_80]

So GT 80,
Older is better? You mean that my 1989 SEARS GT600 with its horizontal 18HP B&S apposed twin is going to be better than my 1994 Craftsman GT600 with its vertical 26HP Kohler V-twin?

in My humble opinion, yes. Having worked on newer machine and older ones, the older ones are just built with better materials. I would pit my 1960's and 70's onan 16 and 18hp tractors against the 25hp intek, or briggs IC in any of the newer tractors anyday. In order to get a comparable tractor now, you best be looking over 5000 for anything decent with a heavy duty frame, fabricated or thicker 10gauge steel mower deck, etc. Dixon had a decent one a few years ago, the Craftsman 9500 series were nice, and of course the higher end john deeres...

However, the garden tractor variety (with 12" rear wheels 5 lugs) are still built better than the riding mowers, so if I were going to buy newer, it better be a 5 lug machine, and I prefer geared to hydro just because I have never had one of the peerless rears in a sears blow up in the work I have done- I know Hugh and others that pull with them blow the trans up pulling over 4500 lb of dead weight, but rolling weight? I can pull over 7000lbs with my 12hp suburban

 

[tkskagen]

TUDOR & GT 80,
Thank you both for your honest opions.
I am also thinking about fabricating a new frame for my GT6000 using 6 Guage steel. Mainly due to some of the flex I am getting with my attachments. Also thinking about an independent font suspension just because... Or not, ok I really don't know about that!

 

[tkskagen]

Maybe a highly modified rack & pinion from a Ford Pinto using needle bearing u-joints... that way I can install the 10" chin steering wheel my daughter purchased for me...? :|

 

[tkskagen]

Chain steering wheel