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We can only speculate about what liquid fuels will eventually be offered at US fuel stations.
Non-diesel vehicle and mower fuel buyers formerly based fuel buying choices almost
entirely on different octane-rated gasolines verses their respective prices.

But in some regions it is now becoming difficult to find stations offering 100% gasoline.
Instead we are seeing lots of choices containing 10% ethanol alcohol plus 90% gasoline.

Years ago a professional mechanic friend who regularly attended classes to maintain his
certification credentials went through a fuel system course. He told me that the first
thing the instructor said was to tell customers NOT to buy gasoline/alcohol mixes because
it was causing so many customer complaints from compromised fuel system performance.
Presumably, more recently produced vehicles are constructed to perform well with at least
10% ethanol. I don't know about 30-year old mower engines and I have concerns about
running 10% ethanol in 2-cycle engines where fuel/oil lubricity is critically important.

Another issue is heat value. Internal combustion engines generate work during their
partial-decompression stroke. Even though current engine designs fail to fully decompress
fuel-combustion-heat generated pressure, the more heat released by fuel they burn,
the more work they produce. So a rational way to decode cost/benefit ratios
various fuel choices present is to compare their combustion heat yield per dollar.

100% Gasoline yields 116,090 BTU/gallon
100% Ethanol yields 76,330 BTU/gallon
By division we observe that ethanol yields about 65.7% as much heat per gallon as does gasoline.

Next I'll compare 100% gasoline verses 90% gasoline + 10% ethanol
100% gasoline yields 116,090 BTU/gallon
90% gasoline + 10% ethanol yields 0.9 x 116,090 + 0.1 x 76,330 = 112,114 BTU/gallon.
By division we observe their heat-energy-yield ratio is 112,114 / 116,090 = 96.5%

So anytime you are comparing prices between 100% gasoline verses 10% ethanol mix,
the ethanol mix must be priced at least 3.5% lower to produce an equally good price per
heat yield value.

What, if anything, are 2-cycle lubricant product manufacturers saying about 10% ethanol mix fuel?
John
 

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What, if anything, are 2-cycle lubricant product manufacturers saying about 10% ethanol mix fuel?
John
My new (as of last year) Stihl MS-250 chainsaw manual says to not use anything more than 10% ethanol gasoline in the 50:1 two stroke mix. It says to either use Stihl brand or any good quality 2 stroke oil. They don't seem to care at levels of 10% ethanol and below. That's all we can buy around here anyway.

I have been running 1 bottle of 50:1 orange bottle Stihl oil and adding 1 ounce of Marvel Mystery oil per gallon of 10% ethanol gas and it's been running fine.
 

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Wow. That's a good read. As for value......Im close to where ethanol is coming from and it's all we can get.......Only at the drag strip can you grab 100% gasoline.......

When I order ito for storage tanks at work, I can specify 90/10 or 100%, but with budgets being tight we can only use E10 blends........it's cost effeiciency doesn't factor into the budget.........bean counters.....blah.
 

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Lawn-Boy fan
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Good post.

I'm thankful that around here we have 2 gas stations that have no ethanol. I fill up with 91 every time.
 

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Decesaed (R.I.P.)
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I run Opti-2, it's gasohol compatible so I don't worry about it too much anymore.

Most new parts that are in/around fuel are made to resist up to 10% ethanol. As old parts go bad from the new fuels it will get replaced with newer parts.

It'll be ok come mornin'
 

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Lawnboy Green
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Only thing I've noticed especially with the older 4-stroke engines is that you have to tweak the mixtures a little bit richer to get them to run smoothly on E10. My dad's Ariens GT17 was throwing a fit the last time I ran it, and a 1/8 turn on the main metering and about 1/4 turn on the idle circuit and all was good again.

On the Lawn-Boys with fixed jet carbs, I really haven't noticed anything different. They still run fine.
 

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JD318
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Ethanol destroys the plastic internals on older Briggs' carbs, letting the gas pour into the crankcase, producing no-start conditions, etc. If it's older than a few years, I wouldn't use it, if possible. Usually highest octane gas doesn't have it.
 

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LAWN-BOY-AHOLIC
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I am a fan of ethanol but not in 2 cycles. If you must then be sure to buy in small quanities and in a tightly capped container. It is also a good idea to shake the fuel mix up before filling your tank each time. Lawn-Boy engines are for the most part low compression engines that don't require higher octane gas, lawnboy recomends regular gas and recomends against high octane fuels for their engines. The problem with ethanol is that it likes water and tends to absorb it from the air (a tightly capped container is a must), this water will combine with the ethanol and form a layer of water/alcohol in the bottom of the fuel jug. Since water and oil don't mix it becomes a oil free liquid zone. You fill your tank the heavy oil free layer migrates to the pour spout and you get a ethanol/water mix with very little oil. You get the picture. Keep your purchases small, your fuel container tightly capped, and run your tank dry after use because your tank cap is vented. 100 % gasoline is your best choice if available. For fun get a quart jar and put in some gas/ethanol mix with the proper amount of oil, add a small amount of water and shake it up. Let it stand for a day or two and observe the layer of oil less water/ethanol.
 

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by LoveLearn
Years ago a professional mechanic friend who regularly attended classes to maintain his
certification credentials went through a fuel system course. He told me that the first
thing the instructor said was to tell customers NOT to buy gasoline/alcohol mixes because
it was causing so many customer complaints from compromised fuel system performance.
Presumably, more recently produced vehicles are constructed to perform well with at least
10% ethanol. I don't know about 30-year old mower engines and I have concerns about
running 10% ethanol in 2-cycle engines where fuel/oil lubricity is critically important.
The key words are "Years ago".
I have a feeling todays classes that techs go to are given totally infomation when it comes to fuel.

I haven't had any fuel related problems since I went to a 30 day gas rule for my small motors. I try to buy enough fuel to last 30 days in my all my small motors (2 and 4 cycle). Any fuel (2 and 4 cycle) left is added to my Suburban's fuel tank. I will add a fuel stablizer to my fuel container(s) before I refill them. Two good ones are the one Briggs and Stratton sells and Sta-Bil. I use Sta-Bil for years with no problems. I will shake my fuel container(s) (2 and 4 cycle) before I add any fuel to my motor.

by rattosh51
Ethanol destroys the plastic internals on older Briggs' carbs, letting the gas pour into the crankcase, producing no-start conditions, etc. If it's older than a few years, I wouldn't use it, if possible. Usually highest octane gas doesn't have it.
How old is the Briggs carb? I have an 1965 Briggs in a Simplicity. It runs great on 10% ethanol fuel. Ethanol will clean the deposits that was left from all the addditives that big oil puts in their fuel.

The article that sharkey post a link is one sided to say the least. The guy works for fox news. Sad to say fox news is pro big business-big oil. Big oil will say and do anything to keep their monoply. 95% of Brazil's fuel is alcohol base fuel. Their fuel is base on sugar.....a product they grow on the farm.
 

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Decesaed (R.I.P.)
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Ethanol and 2 strokes work great together. There are many pure ethanol burning 2 stroke engines and they produce a lot of power for their size. 3.5 hp engines that will fit in the palm of your hand and run at 30,000+ RPM.

There are oils that blend with ethanol obviously or there wouldn't be ethanol burning 2 strokes. Ethanol is a renewable resource, which is good. It lessens our dependence on foreign oil which is good.

It does cause some problems at first with older materials used for seals and gaskets, etc.... Eventually that gets worked out by replacing those with resistant materials.
 

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Lawnboy Green
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633 Posts
Well its official, the stupid PA Governor mandated that all gasoline in the State of Pa must now contain 10 per cent ethanol. I cant wait to vote against this , ed rendell... Im so sick and tired of others deciding what is best for me without asking me or knowing the facts.
 

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Well its official, the stupid PA Governor mandated that all gasoline in the State of Pa must now contain 10 per cent ethanol. I cant wait to vote against this , ed rendell... Im so sick and tired of others deciding what is best for me without asking me or knowing the facts.
We need to vote out the entire Congress. They all stink.
 

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We can only get the blend here in Northeast Wisconsin and so far so good with my equipment, 2-cycle or 4-cycle.
 

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2 stroke enthusiast
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That's all we've had here at the pump for at least 20 years now. With proper maintenance, you shouldn't have issues. I never had as I know other close by and are members here haven't either.
 

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JD318
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990 Posts
"I haven't had any fuel related problems since I went to a 30 day gas rule for my small motors. I try to buy enough fuel to last 30 days in my all my small motors (2 and 4 cycle). Any fuel (2 and 4 cycle) left is added to my Suburban's fuel tank. I will add a fuel stablizer to my fuel container(s) before I refill them. Two good ones are the one Briggs and Stratton sells and Sta-Bil. I use Sta-Bil for years with no problems. I will shake my fuel container(s) (2 and 4 cycle) before I add any fuel to my motor.

How old is the Briggs carb? I have an 1965 Briggs in a Simplicity. It runs great on 10% ethanol fuel. Ethanol will clean the deposits that was left from all the addditives that big oil puts in their fuel."

Anything older than 10 years...there are neoprene parts inside that ethanol eats through eventually. It will run just fine on ethanol, but one day you'll go to start it, and it won't. Check the oil, and it'll be full of gas, and not from trying to start it. Usually see it in 6-18hp 4 strokes Briggs. Carb rebuild time. This is just for the older carbs. Once you replace everything it's fine. Just one of the hidden costs of ethanol. Your 30-day gas rule is a good one.
 

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Old engine addict
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When I hear all these people talk about their problems with ethanol, I have to shake my head and wonder. I've NEVER ONCE had a problem with an engine that can be traced back to ethanol. E-10 is all you've been able to buy here in IL for the last 20+ years. Never had a problem with it and I honestly forget that it's even in there until I see the little note on the pump...
 

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2 stroke enthusiast
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It takes more than a few months of non-use to get a carb to look like that. Usually carbs ONLY corrode like that when fuel has been left in the system or non treated for well over a year, and it a damp environment where moisture can wick into the system via the ethanol in the fuel. P.E. users simply have to take some time and prevent this by storing their equipment in dry locations, and with either treated fuel in the system or by running the system dry on fuel. I prefer to run them dry using treated fuel simply because fuel is hard on tank plastics as well when fuel ages.
 
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