Gas Buda onto a WD45 (is this possible)

12198 Views 15 Replies 5 Participants Last post by waldersha, Oct 4, 2010

phlegm

Discussion Starter · Sep 8, 2010

I was doing some research on medium sized tractors (and Dad happens to have 3 WD's) and noticed that in the later years after AC bought Buda they offered the Diesel Buda 230 as an option. From everything that I've read the Gas and Diesel engines share 90% of the same components (block is my primary concern here) so I am wondering if anybody knows how hard it is to convert a gas 4 cylinder to a diesel 6cylinder.

Why?
As I said Dad has 3 of these
1. WD narrow front gas (his working tractor)
2. WD45 wide front (stuck motor)
3. WD (or WD45 not sure right now) with NO motor

The neighbor has 2 running Buda motors for $150/each (Gleaner Combines). I want one for a backup for my CoOp E4 but the other.. well, I either don't buy it (not really an option when I want to keep around my old equipment) or I buy it and store it (boring) or I buy it and see if I can get one of the 'parts' WDs running again.

Thoughts?
-ron

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

phlegm

Discussion Starter · #2 · Sep 14, 2010

Found what I was looking for
262 gas in a WD45

Zyta said:
In my opinion AC should have built a 45 with a six cylinder from day one..It runs so smooth and has big power!! 90plus horses! and sound sweet.

All you need is the following:

-45D adapter plate or use the adapter from the combine and use a 45D plate to drill your holes.
-45D flywheel or the flywheel from cockshutt 40 or 50 will work
-45D heavy spring clutch plate
-45D throttle linkage used to go to the injection pump and convert it to work with the governor
-D19 Governor or Cockshutt governor if you want it to run like a normal tractor
-45D rad or convert the 45Gas rad
45D hood

Since I still know where the combines are I should be able to get the adapters and redrill the holes. I should have a spare flywheel and clutch from one of our CoOp/Cockshutts. I've got the radiator from a Gas, so I will have it modified as necessary. It shouldn't be too hard to fabricate some throttle linkage if I can't find usable parts.

Which leaves me with the hood.. I will run without one if I get the conversion completed until I can get one of the following..

Find a used one
Get a new one from Steiner for $480

-ron

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Pa.Pete

· #3 · Sep 14, 2010

phlegm said:
Found what I was looking for
262 gas in a WD45

Which leaves me with the hood.. I will run without one if I get the conversion completed until I can get one of the following..

Find a used one
Get a new one from Steiner for $480

-ron

If you have or can find a spare hood why couldn't you just cut a section out of it and splice it into the one you are using to give it a little stretch.
By the way I think this sounds like a fun project!
Pete

phlegm

Discussion Starter · #4 · Sep 15, 2010

Pete, you and I are on the same page... so far my options are:

1. find good used diesel hood (optimal)

2. buy a new one, less optimal but a known cost and commodity

3. No hood, just run some street rod looking supports from the tank up to the radiator shell, then running a chrome stack.. (not long term)

4. Adding additional metal work to the front or rear of the hood, determine which looks better than modify it that way.. Shouldn't be too bad

5. stretch the hood in the middle and then use a metal brake to bend a new longer lip so the 'body line' isnt lost. Then fill in metal as neccessary.. more metal work but may have 'the right look' when done.

My initial project will be to get the motor installed/running then I will go with option #3 until I figure out which other path has the least resistance. Tin work is nice but if the equipment works without it.. well that can wait.

-ron

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Pa.Pete

· #5 · Sep 15, 2010

I've never seen a diesel hood and a WD hood side by side but I think if you look at the bottom of the hood back by the gas tank it looks straight I would think you could line up the body lines and weld it in. Makes it sound easy anyway.

I do agree with you though, get the motor in and have some fun first!
Pete

phlegm

Discussion Starter · #6 · Sep 15, 2010

If it don't work, there ain't no reason for it to be purdy. Or as I was saying to my neighbor the other day... "my tractor is ugly, but it works.. ever tried moving a bale of hay with a can of paint?" (referring to my 856)

-ron

sawyer04

· #7 · Sep 19, 2010

phlegm said:
I was doing some research on medium sized tractors (and Dad happens to have 3 WD's) and noticed that in the later years after AC bought Buda they offered the Diesel Buda 230 as an option. From everything that I've read the Gas and Diesel engines share 90% of the same components (block is my primary concern here) so I am wondering if anybody knows how hard it is to convert a gas 4 cylinder to a diesel 6cylinder.

Why?
As I said Dad has 3 of these
1. WD narrow front gas (his working tractor)
2. WD45 wide front (stuck motor)
3. WD (or WD45 not sure right now) with NO motor

The neighbor has 2 running Buda motors for $150/each (Gleaner Combines). I want one for a backup for my CoOp E4 but the other.. well, I either don't buy it (not really an option when I want to keep around my old equipment) or I buy it and store it (boring) or I buy it and see if I can get one of the 'parts' WDs running again.

Thoughts?
-ron

I always thought the WD 45 diesel frame was 2 inches longer.

phlegm

Discussion Starter · #8 · Sep 19, 2010

I've read everything from 0 change, 1/2", an inch, and now you saying 2". I don't know for certain.

sawyer04

· #9 · Sep 20, 2010

phlegm said:
I've read everything from 0 change, 1/2", an inch, and now you saying 2". I don't know for certain.

I was afraid to say anything because it has been over 40 years. Neighbor had a WD 45 diesel and we had a WD. Neighbor is gone , but his son and I are sure the diesel had a frame 2' longer. This would explain the hood difference. We are sure the fuel tank was the same on both tractors.
The diesel was smooth and snappy, even back in the old days it loved the fuel. It pulled 4 bottom plow easy.

Pa.Pete

· #10 · Sep 20, 2010

sawyer04 said:
I was afraid to say anything because it has been over 40 years. Neighbor had a WD 45 diesel and we had a WD. Neighbor is gone , but his son and I are sure the diesel had a frame 2' longer. This would explain the hood difference. We are sure the fuel tank was the same on both tractors.
The diesel was smooth and snappy, even back in the old days it loved the fuel. It pulled 4 bottom plow easy.

I can't seem to find any specs on the frame lengths but I did talk to a guy one time that was in the process of doing this and I remember him saying something about a clearence issue on the front pulley, I believe he altered something to make it work. As far as the hood if you look at a pic of the 45D the grill and radiator are moved all the way to the front of the frame this would account for the longer hood.
Just my 2 cents for what it's worth.
Pete

phlegm

Discussion Starter · #11 · Sep 20, 2010

I've got some information about using a combine engine in a tractor at home (CoOp/Cockshutt related) and it states that you need to swap the timing cover in order to maintain some clearance at the front of the motor. I wonder if your friends swap ran into this issue. When Dad put the Gleaner motor into my CoOp he swapped it straight in and did not change the governor/timing cover and he had to find some very thin flex fans that barely fit between the waterpump and the radiator. All of the Tractor timing/governor covers are still on the original motors from my E4 and his Cockshutt 50 out back 'in a van for storage'.

I have everything that I need for this swap except the actual clutch parts (from any inline 6 Buda motor I need)
flywheel
friction disk
pressure plate

And once I acquire them I will let you know if it fits or hits..

I figure if it does not fit for any reason I will look into ways to stretch the frame, either adding material or seeing if there is any way that I can redrill and move the front axle assembly forward.

-ron

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sawyer04

· #12 · Sep 20, 2010

I have been looking at the pictures of the diesel; yes I see what you say about the hood. Really an interesting project. I can't find any left around here to compare, but I sure wish good luck to the switch to diesel. I knew the old mechanics, but they are gone.
Shame all that information has left with them. I think I know where one is left about 4 hours south of me. I will pick his brain next time we make contact. Good luck and keep us informed.

phlegm

Discussion Starter · #13 · Sep 20, 2010

I' sticking with a gas buda motor, the only reason I mention diesel at all is because it was a factory option. Gas and diesel use the same blocks.

waterpumprecon

· #14 · Sep 22, 2010

i used to have wd45 diesel. the radiator was mounted on the front pedestal to allow for 6 cylinder engine that would make it look longer. advise, check out the doner engines. the guy i sold mine could'nt use the doner engine i had found. he ended up buying 2 more doner engines to find enough parts to make one running tractor. these block and heads are prone to cracking. note ac only used this engine for a few years. good luck!

phlegm

Discussion Starter · #15 · Sep 23, 2010

I think the diesel motors were hard on blocks and heads due to the higher compression. For example I have some Buda/Cockshutt information in front of me that says a gas 230 had 7.12:1 compression, but a 230 diesel had 15:1, just over 2x the gas CR.

waldersha

· #16 · Oct 4, 2010

Pa.Pete said:
I can't seem to find any specs on the frame lengths but I did talk to a guy one time that was in the process of doing this and I remember him saying something about a clearence issue on the front pulley, I believe he altered something to make it work. As far as the hood if you look at a pic of the 45D the grill and radiator are moved all the way to the front of the frame this would account for the longer hood.
Just my 2 cents for what it's worth.
Pete

I don't believe there is any difference in frame length. You are right that the radiator is clear to the front of the frame rather than back like it is on the 4 cyl gas. The frame on the left side (from seat) of a diesel tractor has a section where it is bent down slightly to allow for the injector pump to fit.

In the middle of helping my dad fit a engine from a gleaner combine into an original diesel tractor. I believe he said from a C gleaner. Should be a fun project.

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