Fuel tank ?

JohnW said:

Once up a time on a web site far far away somebody posted measurements so you could take a paint stick and mark it up so you could measure the gallons of gas in the fuel tank of an 'N' series. My question has anybody ever done this for the 600 & 800 (without factory gauge) series?

Not that it really matters since I always top off to full, I would just like to have a general est. of the fuel needed or used.

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the N gauge will work fine for the naa and 600.. but will be significantly off for the larger tanks in the 800 and 01 series.

soudnguy

I'm not familiar with the tank shape on those models, but older machines generally have fairly simple tank shapes. I could probably work up the capacity measurements if you provide some info on the tank shape and size. If you provide a photo I could confirm this, and then you could message me with the specific dimensions. PM me if you want. If I do this, I'll post the results here for all to access.

I finally got the measurements and I hope this makes sense. Front of tank: 18" wide 8" deep @ ctr 6" deep @ outside edge 7 1/2 " wide ctr ridge 7 3/4" deep @ fuel neck Rear of tank: 15" wide 7 1/2 deep @ ctr 6" deep @ outside edge 4 1/2" wide ctr ridge.

Frank865 said:

Instead of all the infernal math, just drain the tank,
pour a gallon in, mark your stick, pour another gallon,
mark the stick, ect. ect....

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Yep.. that's how OI made mine.. 2 paint sticks.. one dry ne that got marked.. one to dip the tank and then xfer the marked level.

soundguy

This one is going to be a bit of a challenge, but I'm still going to try. I think I'll knock together a quick model of the shape on the CAD system, then layer the volume in intervals. I will need a couple of more measurements to make this work:
Overall length of tank (front to rear)
Radius of outside corners of tank (when viewed from top)

Also, is this tank smooth on the bottom and is there a radius between the sides and bottom? Is the bottom of the tank mounted level, or is it at an incline.

man y'all are overthinking this a whole lot...:fing20:

soundguy

Loremaster72 said:

This one is going to be a bit of a challenge, but I'm still going to try. I think I'll knock together a quick model of the shape on the CAD system, then layer the volume in intervals. I will need a couple of more measurements to make this work:
Overall length of tank (front to rear)
Radius of outside corners of tank (when viewed from top)

Also, is this tank smooth on the bottom and is there a radius between the sides and bottom? Is the bottom of the tank mounted level, or is it at an incline.

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souNdguy said:

man y'all are overthinking this a whole lot...:fing20:

soundguy

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Yeah, but it is fun and helps keep the ole gray cells working.

Mark, here is the pic and tracing we talked about.

Nouveau ******* said:

Did you take into account that huge star shaped dimple in the bottom? Plus the space that the fuel pickup will take up, as well as its exact shape and placement within the tank?
:sidelaugh

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and internal sediment as well :Stop:

what about baffles?:lalala:

soundguy

Frank865 said:

Instead of all the infernal math, just drain the tank,
pour a gallon in, mark your stick, pour another gallon,
mark the stick, ect. ect....

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This is about the easiest way. Just don't mark the paint stick when parked on a hill. All that math is making my head spin.

Kirk

Kirk-NJ said:

This is about the easiest way. Just don't mark the paint stick when parked on a hill. All that math is making my head spin.

Kirk

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I've heard of brute force and ignorance method.. but this one seems to be the brute force and intelegence method!! neat exercise in math.. but wholly un-needed.

soundguy

OK, after being made seem crazy, could be. It was rainy and I was still hurting from over doing it yesterday, **** surgery, I decided to drain the tank and do the 1 gallon at a time. For those that had to comment about the shape of the bottom or sediment, just for the record takes 3 qts. to fill the stamped areas in the bottom before the fuel would flow into the sediment bowl. Starting from that point for the usable fuel, if your tank is the aftermarket and I assume original 600 series tank the reading, if you are interested:

1 = 3/8
2 = 3/4
3 = 1 5/16
4 = 1 7/8
5 = 2 1/2
6 = 3 1/8
7 = 3 5/8
8 = 4 1/8
9 = 4 3/4
10 = 5 3/8
11 = 6 1/4

Further digs invited. :lalala:

JohnW said:

OK, after being made seem crazy, could be. It was rainy and I was still hurting from over doing it yesterday, **** surgery, I decided to drain the tank and do the 1 gallon at a time. For those that had to comment about the shape of the bottom or sediment, just for the record takes 3 qts. to fill the stamped areas in the bottom before the fuel would flow into the sediment bowl. Starting from that point for the usable fuel, if your tank is the aftermarket and I assume original 600 series tank the reading, if you are interested:

1 = 3/8
2 = 3/4
3 = 1 5/16
4 = 1 7/8
5 = 2 1/2
6 = 3 1/8
7 = 3 5/8
8 = 4 1/8
9 = 4 3/4
10 = 5 3/8
11 = 6 1/4

Further digs invited. :lalala:

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That's pretty cool John, thanks. I'm going to mark up a paint stick! Now, how can we convert those figures into running time?

Paul J said:

Now, how can we convert those figures into running time?

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That is the reason I started this, enjoy.

JohnW said:

Further digs invited.

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No digs.... the fill and measure was just the fast, simple, effective and accurate way to solve this problem :fing20: , sans any theoretical physics

sometimes a cigar really is a cigar!

soundguy

I'm still going to work on the CAD model for the volume distribution. I've gotten a bit busy in at work (both a good and a bad thing!) but since I don't have a fuel tank on hand, I don't have the luxury of the drain and fill technique. I think it's just a fun exercise to get the answer, and I've had to do similar things on design projects I've worked on. If this was one of the new style polymer tanks crammed into every available corner of space available on a machine, I wouldn't even attempt this. They are great for optimizing fuel capacity, but a PAIN To calculate.

By the way, a 16 ga. baffle running 3/4 height and the length of the tank would be 5.96 cubic inches or .0258 gal or 3.3oz. Based on the level markings listed, this is a change in height of .015 inches based on the mid-tank change in height vs. volume. I'd say you can safely ignore this volume difference.

I'm not sure what type of fuel level sender the Ford tank uses, but as I recall, a standard semi-truck fuel sensor has a float that is about 1 1/4" diameter and 3" long, or 3.68 cubic inches, or .016 gal, or 2.04 oz. Doubling this volume to account for the sender mount bracket and electronics, you would have 4.08 oz. This is still a volume you can safely ignore.

Hows the headache now? :ROF I'd recommend Excedrin, as it works best for me! :trink40:

Unfortunately, if you look at how a fuel sender is normally set up, there is often quite a bit of dead space below the fuel level sender, and also a good bit of dead volume you can't drain, at least with a top mounted pickup tube. You have to leave the tube off the bottom to not scoop up sediment, but then you can't quite get all of the fuel. It often depends on how well the off-the-shelf sender fits into the tank you've jammed into the available space left after the other parts are designed.