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I doubt the dealer meant statically. Running tires with high deformation causes them to heat excessively. Though I can’t see tires getting that hot at GT speeds.
 

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Your tractor weighs 960 lbs, plus the factory plow adds another hundred or more. Rear wheel weights plus chains will give you all the traction needed for pushing snow to the tractor's capability. Get rid of that oversized rear weight box that overloads your transmission and axles and most notably lifts the steering mechanism off the ground!. Then check the blade setting so it just sits on the ground when plowing. If possible, note the setting or make an index mark you can use each time you start plowing. front wheel weights will help with steering and front chains of one type or another.
Note that even large heavy machinery like road graders need tilting tires, weights and chains to counteract the steering resistance of side-casting materials. Adding more and more weight just won't fix your problem.
 

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Your tractor weighs 960 lbs, plus the factory plow adds another hundred or more. Rear wheel weights plus chains will give you all the traction needed for pushing snow to the tractor's capability. Get rid of that oversized rear weight box that overloads your transmission and axles and most notably lifts the steering mechanism off the ground!.
Note that the transmissions/final drives in GTs of this class will not be overloaded in any way with a mere 300 lb ballast box. The tiller that goes in the 3PH of my GT weighs 385 lb.

I do agree that that much counterweight will have a negative effect on steering, but it may be necessary, depending on the snow conditions, to supply sufficient traction. The addition of some additional front end weight is indicated as a counter to the rear mounted ballast box to allow the steering to be functional. Keep in mind that traction, for both the front and rear tires, is considerably reduced while operating on snow.

My GT has a loader for front end weight, and sports 650 lb of combined rear end ballast and counter weight for snow duty. It has pulled cars and trucks out of snow filled ditches.
 

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Thanks Tudor. You stated my case better than I could have without out right insulting someone.
The secret is to proofread your reply before posting, then retype it with "adjusted" wording so as not to offend.

If I had posted my initial thoughts on some threads, I would have been banned years ago!

My GT has a loader for front end weight, and sports 650 lb of combined rear end ballast and counter weight for snow duty. It has pulled cars and trucks out of snow filled ditches
Note that even with all the weight carried by my GT, it would still spin the tires when faced with heavy snow loads. It's just that the definition of "heavy" changes as more weight is added. Substitute "ain't happening" for "heavy" if it only carried a 300 lb ballast box for weight.
 

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The secret is to proofread your reply before posting, then retype it with "adjusted" wording so as not to offend.

If I had posted my initial thoughts on some threads, I would have been banned years ago!
That's why I just sit back and waited. My initial thoughts would have been a disaster.
Anyway the plan is still to design some kind of front weight holder and go from there.
 

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Anyway the plan is still to design some kind of front weight holder and go from there.
Figure on about 150 lb and adjust from there. It may need as much as 200 lb to keep the tires from sliding excessively without chains.
 

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Thanks Tudor. You stated my case better than I could have without out right insulting someone.
Well I seem to have stuck my foot in it! Sorry, I did not intend to insult your tractor's capabilities or imply it can't carry the load. I totally missed the point I was trying to make by suggesting the weight box is overloaded. Sorry about that!

What I really wanted to say is that adding a lot of weight out behind the tractor creates a lever effect that uses the rear axle as a fulcrum. The further away from the axle (like at the end of a 3-point), the greater the lever effect of the weights. The load on the short end of the lever must be counterbalanced on the long end of the lever - like with the tractor engine, loader, front weights, blade, etc. That's just what you are proposing, add front weights to counteract the effect of lost steering by the unbalanced rear weight. Good move, as far as it goes...
Unfortunately, creating the fulcrum at the axle (another lever) introduces extra forces that can severely affect the handling of the machine. Whenever you start moving the tractor forward or backward you add a torque force to the lever, making a see-saw effect - thus the bouncing you mentioned. This bouncing makes a break-away force the affects your traction. Unless the friction factor is controlled...i.e. with tire chains, gooey treads siping, sand, or ??, the lever forces will act to make the fulcrum unstable, and thus steering and traction unpredictable.

I learned a lot about this effect when towing a trailer loaded with a mini-excavator. The rental people loaded the machine a few inches behind the balance point of the trailer axles. The lever/fulcrum effect made the trailer nearly uncontrollable, even at 15 mph. I moved the machine forward a few inches when I returned it and had no problems. towing.

Bottom line is - simply adding more weight may not have the desired effect, especially on snow and ice. Using wheel weights, tire loading and a heavy nut behind the wheel on the tractor seat (like me), moves the fulcrum point and changes the lever configuration to put force on the front end and stabilize the traction and steering.

lever.jpg
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I have seen this balancing/torquing effect in many situations, like log skidders sliding down mountains, excavators sliding sideways, bulldozers being totally ineffective, and best of all, my neighbor with his new skid-steer loader pushing snow and dirt with only the back wheels engaged on the ground - and going most anywhere except where he points it. The placements of those fulcrums and weights and how they change with loading makes amazing differences in handling, traction and effectiveness.
 

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Well I seem to have stuck my foot in it! Sorry, I did not intend to insult your tractor's capabilities or imply it can't carry the load. I totally missed the point I was trying to make by suggesting the weight box is overloaded. Sorry about that!


I learned a lot about this effect when towing a trailer loaded with a mini-excavator. The rental people loaded the machine a few inches behind the balance point of the trailer axles. The lever/fulcrum effect made the trailer nearly uncontrollable, even at 15 mph. I moved the machine forward a few inches when I returned it and had no problems. towing.

Bottom line is - simply adding more weight may not have the desired effect, especially on snow and ice. Using wheel weights, tire loading and a heavy nut behind the wheel on the tractor seat (like me), moves the fulcrum point and changes the lever configuration to put force on the front end and stabilize the traction and steering.
Note that there is a difference between towing an unbalanced trailer at 30 mph or more, and operating an unbalanced GT with a top speed of 9 mph. You learn in a hurry that travel speed must be acceptable for the terrain being travelled over or bad things happen!

The bucket for the loader on my GT weighs 210 lb and is countered by a 250 lb back blade on the 3PH. The bucket has a struck capacity of 9 cu-ft. That's 800 lb of dirt. Do I travel at 9 mph with a full bucket? Mmm, nope! But I can travel across a fairly level lawn at 2-3 mph without difficulty.

Weights and balances is all about making use of the best computer in the world. You know, the one above your shoulders. In some fields, it's a distinct subject of study. Get the calculations wrong in aviation and you'll make a hole in the ground off the end of the runway, in a boat, you get to swim home, on a GT, you get a bit of rock 'n roll, and then make the necessary speed adjustment to bring it back under control.
 

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It should also be noted I did not install the rear weight to counter balance the front blade. But for rear traction while pushing snow with the blade down. The force of pushing snow is what is bringing the front of the tractor off the ground and not the rear weight. In fact my snow blower weighs in at probably 4 times the weight of the blade. It takes the same amount of weight just to move the blower around off a hard surface. I get no rocking of the tractor with the blower off the ground. So why should I with front weights that will hang 1/4 the distance the blower does?
 

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Discussion Starter #55
We are way off the subject of front tire chains. Maybe its time to get back on subject.

I started this thread, no problem that it went sideways....lol

I gave up on the front tire chains for now, just used regular chain....They kept falling off. Going to look for some cheap roller chain, preferably used and try that.
 

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We are way off the subject of front tire chains. Maybe its time to get back on subject.
The actual title is "Front wheel chains or ..."

The subject, more correctly stated is, "How to improve front wheel traction for steering?"

The thread is still on topic when discussing front end weight.
 

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Note that there is a difference between towing an unbalanced trailer at 30 mph or more, and operating an unbalanced GT with a top speed of 9 mph. You learn in a hurry that travel speed must be acceptable for the terrain being travelled over or bad things happen!
Note that I said the example trailer was uncontrollable even under 15 mph. You guys are totally missing my point about weight placement, so I give up.
 

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Did not miss it. Many of us have probably done the same trailer thing. That is why I load my own trailers be it a rental or my own. It just doesn't apply to my GT front blade application as no weight will be installed in front of the blade or to the blade. If weight directly in front of the tractor was going to make things bounce there are an awful lot of tractors out there that would be having problems and they are not.
 

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Note that I said the example trailer was uncontrollable even under 15 mph. You guys are totally missing my point about weight placement, so I give up.
Oh we got the point. Did you notice the imbalance on my GT with 1000 lb out front and only 250 lb out back? And also the cure to limit uncontrolled oscillation which is to slow down?

Particularly with a GT/FEL combination, balance is a fleeting thing. There is commonly too much weight out back in order to offset those times when considerably more weight is out front in the form of payload. The use of common sense is not an option. It is mandatory.
 
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