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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a Case 446 that I am looking to either make my own or buy a front end loader or a copy of a Johnny bucket. There are some things that I am worried about with the front end loader like:
~Will the front spindle (the "L" shaped piece that the wheel is on that connects to the pivot arm) be able to support the weight?
~Will the hydraulic pump be able to handle all the extra cylinders?
~Would it even be worth putting on a front end loader?
~What do you guys think?
Thanks a lot everyone!!
 

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I have a Case 446 that I am looking to either make my own or buy a front end loader or a copy of a Johnny bucket. There are some things that I am worried about with the front end loader like:
~Will the front spindle (the "L" shaped piece that the wheel is on that connects to the pivot arm) be able to support the weight?
~Will the hydraulic pump be able to handle all the extra cylinders?
~Would it even be worth putting on a front end loader?
~What do you guys think?
Thanks a lot everyone!!
Well I'm almost always accused of giving bad advice on an open forum each and everytime i give in my 2 cents, so I'll let someone else take this one.

please review these fine magazines:

http://gizmoplans.com/lawn-tractor-front-end-loader-plans

http://www.farmshow.com/view_articles.php?a_id=115

and to answer your question, Oh! YES a loader is worth it... :thThumbsU

Lots of Hydraulics to work it too.

Jay
 

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Only you can decide whether it's worth it. There are many variables like what your capable of, what you have access to, wallet size and whether you just like the challenge of seeing how good you can do . Using a 400 series (or most garden tractors for that matter) it will be fairly light duty. There were at least 2 companies (Johnson & Quick Way) that made aftermarket loaders for Case GTs. I believe that they used a seperate pump.
If I was going to build a loader for one (I'm not) I would look at the possability of making it quick attach like almost all loaders are now. It just seems that it would be handy to get it out of the way when you don't need it. I sell farm equipment to dealers in New England and most of the dealers here never order tractors under 50 HP without a loader but they are all quick attach. If you used the pto to power the pump and built the tank into the frame everything would come off with the loader.
The other thing that you mentioned was a Johny bucket. I have no experiance with them but I used to sell the Steiner Tractor (Steinerturf.com). They had a attachment called a slip scoop. Being an old farmer and used to conventional loaders I didn't see much value in it. After using it on demonstrations though I can tell you that it works. It is amazing how much dirt you can move in a day with one. Steiners like Case GTs are a little awkward with loaders because you need 3 hands but this slip scoop outsold loaders about 20 to 1. Good luck whatever you decide!
 

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I plan on putting one on a 446, but I will only use the tractor hydraulics for the drive system and power steering, the loader will use a pump powdered by the PTO, and have it's oil for the loader in the uprights. Asking a lot of the tractor pump as it's only producing 8 gpm, will it work yes but easier, better working and more reliable I think my way of two separate pumps. As far as is a 446 big enough, well it's better than my SS14 loader and that works just fine, even with out automatic trans. Good luck, and remember there is a lot of information out here, both good and bad so do your homework. :fing32:
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the replys everyone! I know it would definetly be worth it, I just do not want to put to much strain on the tractor itself and have something major happen. Would i beable to put another stock hydro pump on the front drive? The clutch that was oringally there broke and at the moment it is just the rod that comes out of the engine. There is a local tractor junkyard that has many garden tractor loaders that i could pretty easily make it work on the 446. If I did not get another pump and just used the stock original pump that came with the tractor, would it work at all? Or would it just be too much work to make it usable? Thanks guys!
 

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These are tough tractors, so they will handle a loader. However, it depends on what you want it to do for you. As long as you don't over-do it, then all will be well. As far as they hydraulics, you can do it off the stock pump, but will notice some degradation of current functions while using the loader hydraulics... also, it depends on how you plumb it into your current system, how and when it will affect it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thats true. These tractors aren't like the ones made today. If I were to plumb it in to the stock pump, where would I plumb it in? In between the pump and the travel valve? Also would I have to worry about floading out the hydro fluid tank?
 

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Alright, I said I wasn't gonna comment, but I think I need to mention a little something.

PLUMBING a loader valve in any kind of series either before, or after the Travel control valve, is a big NoNo. (Done that) :banghead3
Doesn't work.

IF you want to use the curent pump and flow, you need to have a Travel control valve WITH Power Beyond Porting (600 series) so you can divide the flow to the loader valves, OR.

If you can't find a 600 series valve like I described above, you will need a loader valve with a build in power beyond so you can do the reverse, and devide the flow to the travel valve off of the P.B. of the loader.

There was a lot of noise made by me, and a lot of good guys on here trying to set me straight about the plumbing of these homemade loaders on these 200/400 series tractors, it can be made. BUT.

Please, do not plumb anything "valves" in "series" without the use of a power beyond of some kind.

Thanks.

I'm gonna butt out now. :crybaby::crybaby:

Jay
 

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Both sides of double acting cylinders do not contain the same amount of oil. Depending on the cylinders that you choose your tank may need to be larger. If you choose a cylinder with a fairly large rod (say 2" cyl. with 1 1/2" rod) on both the lift and curl your oil level will change considerably. The rod end doesn't take as much oil because the rod is occuping most of the area. For the same reason, a cylinder pulling isn't nearly as strong as pushing. This is why big loaders usually have linkage so the cylinder is pushing to curl the bucket not pulling like light duty farm loaders.
 

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It would probably be overkill on that tractor. That frame and axle won't handle what a 600 series will. It also adds weight which you don't want. The heavier the loader, the less you can lift. You should be able to get by with a single center mounted cyl. with a smaller rod which gives you more curl power. You can ask Jayvee or some of the others what to expect for lift capacity.
 

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There's a Johnny Bucket for Case/Ingersoll in Lancaster OH for sale right now ...

For Sale, new never used Johnny Bucket Jr for Case and Ingersoll tractors. Has automatic dump feature, comes with all electronic controls, mule drive, etc. Ready to install!! Shown on my dad's 1973 Case 446. E-mail me for more pictures. $700.00 OBO 740-653-2033, Lancaster, Ohio

Brian
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I wish I was a little closer! Also I was just thinking. Would it be possible to put quick connectors on the deck cylinder so then when I hook a loader up, I could disconnect the deck cylinder and hook up the front end loader cylinders. Then I could use the factory lever to make the loader go up and down. Then buy an electric cylinder for bucket to dump. Do you know what I mean? Would this work?
 

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I don't think that those valves have power beyond. There is a port labeled PB but it is used for the return from PS and case drain. The pressure for PS comes from a flow devider between the pump and valve. The pumps are also bigger to allow for the additional GPM needed for PS.
 

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Hi,

I'm following this thread as I want to do a fel on a gt.

Question about using the std Case GT hyd pump on the pto side of the engine,
Are the pumps directional?

thx. chuckbob
Subscribing to this thread.

I am hoping to find out the same thing. Seems to me that if you are working on, for example a 2XX/4XX series you could use a pump from a 3XXX/4XXX series tractor on the PTO side of the engine to get the proper rotation and vice-versa ...no? By using a "stock pump" and possibly stock lovejoy coupling, you are staying in the proper RPM range, etc.

Understanding that the original hydraulic system may be able to be configured to accommodate the added functionality, it also seems that there is justification to add an independent "auxiliary hydraulic system." That way, you are avoiding some of the potential operational issues with the simultaneous use of functions etc., that seems go along with "tapping in" to the original system.

I am not considering adding an FEL, and it still seems worth it to me to add an auxiliary hydraulic system just to be able to run various cylinders independently, and/or a motor.

Just my .02
 
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