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Discussion Starter #21
With the head and gasket out of the way, try spinning a bolt into each of the holes in the jug. They should go in with not too much effort, finger tight or maybe a little more, but not much.

If one takes much more effort than that, stop, take it out, and make sure the threads on both the bolt and the jug are clean, then try again.
Heres what happens, they go in jug good and when they hit last thread they all stop, and it almost looks like the very last thread where the bolt would go through is different. Crazy !
 

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Heres what happens, they go in jug good and when they hit last thread they all stop, and it almost looks like the very last thread where the bolt would go through is different. Crazy !
I tried a 7.6 jug that I have in the shop. It did just what you're describing. As near as I can tell they must have tapped the holes a little short. Probably on purpose, because they spec'ed bolts that were just the right lengths.

I think you have two choices.

1. Tap the holes out the rest of the way, to let the bolts protrude through a little.
2. Cut a little off the bolts to keep the ends in the holes.

Fun with machines!
 

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Discussion Starter #24 (Edited)
I tried a 7.6 jug that I have in the shop. It did just what you're describing. As near as I can tell they must have tapped the holes a little short. Probably on purpose, because they spec'ed bolts that were just the right lengths.

I think you have two choices.

1. Tap the holes out the rest of the way, to let the bolts protrude through a little.
2. Cut a little off the bolts to keep the ends in the holes.

Fun with machines!
WOW ! Just my luck, these heads are giving me h311! I wonder if I can find my orig. 7.6 head bolts and how bad were they ? Geesh...So what would you do, or should I say "what would be the thing for me to do being a novice" ( altho I'll prolly be a pro by the time this thing ever gets finished lol)
I have a new tap & die set and can I cut the bolts to proper length and run that thing that will cut new threads down to the bottom where I cut the bolt to "re-crown" it so to speak in gun terms like to un-bugger up the cut off part of the bolt where it was cut and needs good threads?
Or take the stick looking part of it that cuts threads on holes and run it thru the already threaded hole? Im wondering if that C.I. will bust threading from the inside as opposed to cutting and dressing up the bolt. And will one of those Dremmel wheels ( so-called cutting wheel ) cut those bolts?
Man what a bummer, but this is the story of my life and wouldnt know how to handle something any other way really.
I try to do things right, even down to the small stuff as can be seen here that I did today.

Of course I did that while messin around with other stuff. Had to fill up about 12 ankle breaking holes in my yard that my dog dug while she did that stuff, she just stopped all of a sudden...must have been the bamboo switch.
 

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So what would you do, or should I say "what would be the thing for me to do being a novice"
I think your simplest least-risky fix is to trim the bolts.

Spin a nut on all the way. Use your dremel or even a hacksaw to get the length down to what you want. Do a little grinding to dress up the end, clean off any burrs. Unthread the nut (to clean anything else out of the threads)

One thing to watch for: If you're trimming bolts, you need to make sure you will have enough threads left to go into the hole, without the body (the unthreaded part) hitting. I wouldn't expect that to be a problem here, because you're not talking a lot of thread depth, and you've got bolts which are only a little too long. But keep an eye on it. If you end up starting with a too-long bolt, and you trim off so much of the thread that the body will hit the jug before it's down, then throw the bolt away and start with a shorter one.

After you've got your bolts trimmed, you're back to test-fitting to make sure you can snug everything by hand before torquing.


If this were my project, I'd probably tap out the holes. Some of my 7.6 machines are like that, presumably because somebody went through what you're going through; bought some bolts which were a little long. I'm advising not to do that in this case because it sounds like you're not used to using taps (the little stick looking part) and dies (the round part) to cut threads. The consequence of messing up a bolt is a new bolt. The consequence of messing up the holes in the jug is a new jug, or at least a repair with a helicoil or something like that.

You're almost there. Get those bolts sorted out, do your test fitting, torque that head on there, button her up, and go! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Mark,
Take a look here: https://www.gravelymanuals.com/pdf/Conv_76_IPL_19720315.pdf

page 1/2 describes the shorter bolts which are 5/16-18 X 1 3/8" (see part number 57) - 10 are needed
page 3/4 describes the two longer bolts which are 5/16-18 X 2" (see part number 12) - 2 are needed

Tractor Supply carries the 2" long bolts but not the shorter 1-3/8" long bolts. I went to Fastenal and ordered the shorter ones. I am really glad that you are back on this project!!!!
Oh Yea Fireant just wanted to mention that that site is the same as the sticky's manuals and I stay on that thing and am glad they are there.
Read on to the 2nd. page and see what I discovered with bolts stopping in the 7.6 jug and confirmed by jrd. I seem to get every curve ball thrown lol.
This is why I have to walk away from this thing sometimes, altho I may be pretty experienced at running these Im a novice at working on them.
When I was a kid my boss would tell me "break this and I'll kick your a** when I get back" so I was carefull w/them lol.
 

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Discussion Starter #27 (Edited)
I think your simplest least-risky fix is to trim the bolts.

Spin a nut on all the way. Use your dremel or even a hacksaw to get the length down to what you want. Do a little grinding to dress up the end, clean off any burrs. Unthread the nut (to clean anything else out of the threads)




If this were my project, I'd probably tap out the holes. Some of my 7.6 machines are like that, presumably because somebody went through what you're going through; bought some bolts which were a little long. I'm advising not to do that in this case because it sounds like you're not used to using taps (the little stick looking part) and dies (the round part) to cut threads. The consequence of messing up a bolt is a new bolt. The consequence of messing up the holes in the jug is a new jug, or at least a repair with a helicoil or something like that.

You're almost there. Get those bolts sorted out, do your test fitting, torque that head on there, button her up, and go! :)
You are right about that, a new jug or new bolt and I have never used a T&D before and on this isnt the time to learn because I can do that when I get bored sometime.
Thanks as usual and altho its always pleasant I hope I dont have to require any more help on this particulas task.
Mark

EDIT: I got a bolt in there thru the gasket & head for proper length measurement but now Im thinking about how far to go with it? Meaning getting the bolt to the bottom of threaded hole is ez but what about when it has to be torqued? How much farther will it go then, a full rotation, half a rotation? Will it bust jug then?
Im gonna mow a bit so I can think and either watch some vids on tapping or take jug off and take it to a place that can tap it all the way.
When the measurement is so close that a half rotation of a bolt can end the whole party and bust another jug it might be worth it because if I bust another jug I doubt I will ever touch this thing ever again, unless I find myself on home confinement and I dont plan on that happening thats for sure.
Not knowing how much further the bolt will go when being torqued is a fine rope to walk. And it has to be exact.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Now that Ive calmed down a bit and did some thinking it looks like I need some 1 1/2" ( less head ) bolts and some washers for close work. All the bolts I have bought wich is literally a 100 or so I should have some and washers to of course.
But this one has to be exact or either the head wont be on tight enuf or jug could bust because of that stoppage in the threaded hole in the jug.
I was surprised at how easy the valves & springs went back on and how jug went on and over the piston but I feared I'd get kicked in the gut somewhere and this must be it lol.

I noticed taking pics that the angle of phone cam made the black marker line look not-lined up w/ruler but it is right on .
 

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But this one has to be exact
Nope, it doesn't.

You're overthinking it.

You need enough bolt in the hole to pull the torque you need (20 ft/lb), that's all.

You have the dimensions of the bolts from the IPL. Just cut them to those dimensions. If you're really trying to be nit-picky, after cutting, spin the bolts into the jug (without forcing them) and measure how much bolt you have protruding. Any bolt that's too tall for the dimension of the head plus gasket, take off a little more. Or add a washer under that bolt when you assemble it.

If the end of the bolt is 1/8" or maybe even 1/4" above the "bottom" of the threads, you're still fine.


Think about when they were assembling these things at the gravely factory. Any sort of machine that required all kinds of precision and hand-fiddling would never have made it out the door. They were made with loose tolerances on purpose. Exact is the last thing they need to be.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
Nope, it doesn't.

You're overthinking it.

You need enough bolt in the hole to pull the torque you need (20 ft/lb), that's all.

You have the dimensions of the bolts from the IPL. Just cut them to those dimensions. If you're really trying to be nit-picky, after cutting, spin the bolts into the jug (without forcing them) and measure how much bolt you have protruding. Any bolt that's too tall for the dimension of the head plus gasket, take off a little more. Or add a washer under that bolt when you assemble it.

If the end of the bolt is 1/8" or maybe even 1/4" above the "bottom" of the threads, you're still fine.


Think about when they were assembling these things at the gravely factory. Any sort of machine that required all kinds of precision and hand-fiddling would never have made it out the door. They were made with loose tolerances on purpose. Exact is the last thing they need to be.
Im just real worried about bustin another jug because like I said if I bust another one it'll be next spring before I work on it again probably. And if I didnt already have the jug on I'd just take it to a place a cpl miles away that works on Gravely's. There is actually a huge hdwre. store/Tractor place that carries Gravely's and has worked on them for 50 yrs. and still works on the old ones but the only time I used them was to get that dad burn pulley on w/the new bearings because I just couldnt get it right but how I got the mark on the bolt was I just laid the gasket and head on the jug and took a bolt and hand screwed it in there and had a socket on a extension ( no ratchet) and just made sure it was in there and marked where the rest of bolt was sticking out.
Bolts dont cost much and I would at least think that they all are the same length exept for maybe a cpl threads less the two long ones for cooling shields so I could get some 1 1/2 bolts preferrably all threaded and just push them on my grinding wheel and remove a few threads and I'd have enuf to feel safe tourqing .
I'll have to give it some thought, Ive done so many things today my mind feels polluted lol.
Thanks for all the advice and help.
I think your'e about the only one that hasnt given up on me here, but I cant say I blame them.
Mark
 

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The worry about breaking a jug is understandable. You're going to take it a step at a time and not make that mistake.

You've already got all the information you need. In post 28, you took a bolt and spun it in until it stopped, with the head on, then marked the shaft, correct? Your measurement is 1-1/2". Look in the IPL. The bolt dimensions for the 10 short bolts is 1-3/8". That makes perfect sense; they're spec'cing bolts which stop 1/8" below the bottom of the hole.

Another experiment you can do to gain confidence: you now know that the bolts are intended to not go all the way down. Take a small piece of wire, bend a right angle about 1/4" long in the end to make a feeler, with the head and gasket on, spin a bolt in, then stick the feeler up from the bottom. That will show how much hole is left, and tell you how close you are to your 1/8".

The bolt you used in post 28 looks like one of the end bolts, 2" long. The IPL specs the two end bolts, the long ones, at 2". If that really is a 2" bolt, it shouldn't need to be modified. Try the same sorts of things on the end; spin in with the head and gasket on (and include the spacer), and see how it sits. If you think it's still a bit too long, take 1/8" off it.

It's all doable. Just take your time, make sure each step makes sense before you do it, and it'll be fine.
 

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Daryl G
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... I think your'e about the only one that hasnt given up on me here, but I cant say I blame them.
Mark
Hey, there are at least two of us on your team Mark!!! I am up in the Upper Penisula of Michigan since last week (with a horrible internet connection) but still very interested in this project. Like jrd said earlier, do NOT overthink this.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
Hey, there are at least two of us on your team Mark!!! I am up in the Upper Penisula of Michigan since last week (with a horrible internet connection) but still very interested in this project. Like jrd said earlier, do NOT overthink this.
Yea I know Buddy, lol.
I have some kin up there in the U.P., in a place called Iron River.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
The worry about breaking a jug is understandable. You're going to take it a step at a time and not make that mistake.

You've already got all the information you need. In post 28, you took a bolt and spun it in until it stopped, with the head on, then marked the shaft, correct? Your measurement is 1-1/2". Look in the IPL. The bolt dimensions for the 10 short bolts is 1-3/8". That makes perfect sense; they're spec'cing bolts which stop 1/8" below the bottom of the hole.

Another experiment you can do to gain confidence: you now know that the bolts are intended to not go all the way down. Take a small piece of wire, bend a right angle about 1/4" long in the end to make a feeler, with the head and gasket on, spin a bolt in, then stick the feeler up from the bottom. That will show how much hole is left, and tell you how close you are to your 1/8".

The bolt you used in post 28 looks like one of the end bolts, 2" long. The IPL specs the two end bolts, the long ones, at 2". If that really is a 2" bolt, it shouldn't need to be modified. Try the same sorts of things on the end; spin in with the head and gasket on (and include the spacer), and see how it sits. If you think it's still a bit too long, take 1/8" off it.

It's all doable. Just take your time, make sure each step makes sense before you do it, and it'll be fine.
Will do, I gotta go to work today and can think better, round here I feel a bit overwelmed with a million things to do.
But your'e right Im already on the right track and heck its just bolts and such and if I cant handle this I cant handle much altho costly mistakes can be made just watch what your'e doin and I should be fine.
Oh yea, I think I used a old stainless bolt for the pic so I could see the mark on it pretty good.
Thanks, Mark
 

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Discussion Starter #35
The worry about breaking a jug is understandable. You're going to take it a step at a time and not make that mistake.

You've already got all the information you need. In post 28, you took a bolt and spun it in until it stopped, with the head on, then marked the shaft, correct? Your measurement is 1-1/2". Look in the IPL. The bolt dimensions for the 10 short bolts is 1-3/8". That makes perfect sense; they're spec'cing bolts which stop 1/8" below the bottom of the hole.

I hate to ask this what what exactly is the IPL you talk about? Im pretty sure the "PL" part of it means 'parts list' but I use the Sticky's thing but it doesnt give much info other than part number and exploded view and thats it. Im glad for it dont get me wrong and Im very happy its here because I use it all the time but I apparently don't know the one you are speaking of.
Mark
 

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IPL == "Illustrated Parts List". There are lots of them on gravelymanuals.com.

The particular one we're talking about is https://www.gravelymanuals.com/pdf/Conv_76_IPL_19720315.pdf It was referenced in post 5 on this thread. This IPL details the parts needed for a 1972 model. Yours is older, but you've got the newer jug, so this is the right IPL to look at to determine what bolts you need for that jug.

On page 1 is the exploded diagram of the engine. Following it is the parts breakdown, on page 2, you'll see part number 57, which is your short bolt. They call it "5/16-18 x 1-3/16 Hex Hd Bolt". On page 3 is the exploded diagram including the cooling system. On page 4, you'll see part number 12, which is your long bolt. They call it "5/16-18 x 2 Hex Hd Bolt".

See? All the information you need is there. The IPL tells you what bolts they expect you to use for assembly, and we've already gone over the techniques for making sure your bolts aren't bottoming in the threads when you install them. You're good to go!
 

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Discussion Starter #37
IPL == "Illustrated Parts List". There are lots of them on gravelymanuals.com.

The particular one we're talking about is https://www.gravelymanuals.com/pdf/Conv_76_IPL_19720315.pdf It was referenced in post 5 on this thread. This IPL details the parts needed for a 1972 model. Yours is older, but you've got the newer jug, so this is the right IPL to look at to determine what bolts you need for that jug.

On page 1 is the exploded diagram of the engine. Following it is the parts breakdown, on page 2, you'll see part number 57, which is your short bolt. They call it "5/16-18 x 1-3/16 Hex Hd Bolt". On page 3 is the exploded diagram including the cooling system. On page 4, you'll see part number 12, which is your long bolt. They call it "5/16-18 x 2 Hex Hd Bolt".

See? All the information you need is there. The IPL tells you what bolts they expect you to use for assembly, and we've already gone over the techniques for making sure your bolts aren't bottoming in the threads when you install them. You're good to go!
OK Yea I checked out and mentioned to Fireant that it was just like the Sticky's section but never noticed any sizes on the parts description, I just thought there was one I didnt know about.
Sorry to ask a dumb question because a stupid question is one you already know the answer to by definition lol.
But the original head I had was a 1966 head that I presume came w/my L model I have been working on and I bought a LI and decided to use it for parts and a few ppl on here said that thing could be a early 50's model or earlier.
Thanks, off to work
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Looks like Im replying to myself again, however I finally got some bolts the right size and in grade 8 ( if they need to be or not, they just happened to be) but I tried a cpl out and they seem to work or let me say they are going to work and for 3 bucks & change it'll be better thab hack-sawing one bolt wich I wouldnt get straight in the first place I can assure everyone.
I will do it tomorrow because Im off then and the mosquitoes wont be eating me alive either.
You have to understand Im convinced theirs something wrong with my head, cant even remember my phone number sometimes.
I got these bolts at a Rural King I work right beside, I have been in there 4 times in the last week, have to litterally go to another state ( altho close) to go to TSC and have been in there buying bolts 3 times in the last week.
Why did it not strike me to check for them at RK I have been to several times this week? I cant answer that, but they had good incriments for sure.
So here it all is, the bent pick is what I use for a 'feeler guage" to see how far in the bolts are going.

Oh and did I mention they are cool looking to lol!
 

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I hate to break it to you, but it looks like you've got paint down in the spark plug hole. That might make it hard to get a plug in there. I advise to you try the plug before you put the head on, make sure you can get it to spin in cleanly. If not, you'll need to clean that out some. It may work to spin the plug in as much as possible, back it out, and try again, to keep working it in. Essentially using the plug as a tap.

I don't see anything else wrong with your head.

+1 on the cool looking. I have several sets of bolts with chromed heads, for when I want to build up a machine that looks cool.
 

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Daryl G
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...You have to understand Im convinced theirs something wrong with my head, cant even remember my phone number sometimes...
Mark,
You and I are in the same boat. I have been traveling to Vanderbilt Neurology in Nashville, TN since April of this year to get my head checked. In fact, I am going back this coming Tuesday to hopefully get my actual diagnosis... my issue is memory problems too PLUS I have lost a great amount of my previous mental sharpness.

I am so glad that you are back on this project. Hopefully, it will be roaring to life soon - unless, you start overthinking things again:tango_face_wink:.
 
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