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I'm planning on building a fel. I'm getting the materal together a friend has a pump i could have . do you guys think it will work. here is the info on it. Marzocchi Gear Pump, Clockwise Rotation, 11.5cc (0.7015in3), 5.47GPM at 1800RPM, 4060psi Max, 4000RPM Max, #12 SAE (3/4") Inlet, #10 SAE (5/8") Outlet, Keyed Shaft 5/8" Bore x 5/32" Key, SAE A 2-Bolt Mount. it be used on a 1650 mf garden tractor with a 16 hp kolher. I think the gpm will be ok. I don't know about the psi seems like a lot. let me no what you pro's think
 

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Welcome to MTF.

The pressure listed is the max that the pump can handle, doesn't mean it will run at that pressure. The pressure will be set by relief valve on the loader valve. For a tractor that small, maybe around 1500 PSI. It also depends on the loader geometry and so on. I'm not aware of what pressure do people run on these small tractors.

My homemade loader works around 2600 PSI but it's a much bigger tractor.
 

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Welcome to MTF.......PTSG did give you some good information, but .I would repost over in our Hydraulic forum....Tudor and a few other Hydraulic experts are usually cruising that forum and maybe add to that answer
2445978
 

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Most loaders and SCUT/CUT tractor hydraulics in general operate in the 1800-2500 PSI range.
 

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Tudor is going to have to confirm this but if your loader is going on a garden tractor that pump is going to make your loader real fast and probably hard to control as well as jerky.
I think that 0.35 cu in is a good size for normal garden tractors. If you know what size cylinders you will be using the proper pump size can be determined.


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Discussion Starter #7
the plans call for this pump Concentric High Pressure Hydraulic Gear Pump — 0.517 Cu. In., Model# G1232C5A300N00
Max. PSI1,200
Shaft Diameter (in.)1/2 x 1 1/2
GPM4 flow at 1800 rpm 8 flow at 3600 rpm
MaterialCast iron
UsageFluid pump, fluid motor
Rotations Per Minute4,000
if this will work i can save 200 . but if think i should buy the Concentric High Pressure Hydraulic Gear Pump then i will. both pumps spec's are close to the same except for psi. plans call for 4, cyc 2 x 16 inch stroke .the valve i have is a
  • 2 spool hydraulic directional control valve 2P40 with joystick
Specifications


  • Brand: VEVOR
  • Max operating pressure: P = 3600psi (250 bar); T = 150psi (10 bar); A , B = 4300psi (300 bar)
  • Nominal flow: 11gpm (40l/min)
  • Relief valve: Adjustable
  • Center system: Open
  • A, B ports: 3/8" BSPP
  • P, T, N port: 1/2" BSPP
  • Weight: 10.8lb (4.9kg)
  • Dimensions (L* W* H): 13.3"*7.8"*6.2" (34*20*16cm)
 

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I think both pumps are a little on the big side. I would suggest more efficient pump like this; 0.49 cu in Dynamic GPF1080PA Hydraulic Pump | Gear Pumps | Hydraulic Pumps | Hydraulics | www.surpluscenter.com

You should check rotation (can be changed if wrong)

My loader came with a similar pump. I think the designers used that Concentra pump because it was versatile; it can be used either as a CW or CCW. Also the large displacement means the engine will stall before it can build enough pressure to break anything. The flow will be limited by the control valves and pipping with such a big pump. I changed to a pump half the size and the speed barely changed.
 

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I have a MF1655 w/FEL that I operated from 1984 to 2006 that has a wheelbase that is 5" longer than the 1650. It is a dedicated FEL platform and has about 2000 hours in that configuration. The information below reflects the experience and knowledge gained from using that tractor.

The MF 1650 has a 2000 rpm PTO. Those large pumps would work best if driven by the PTO or with a pulley ratio that resulted in a maximum 2000 pump rpm when driven from the engine at maximum throttle setting. This establishes the maximum cylinder speed which can be adjusted down for better control with the throttle. As noted above, too much flow results in an over controlling situation at times which can bounce the front tires off of the ground with a 500 lb payload in the bucket. I have found that about 2/3 throttle works for best operating speed (loader AND tractor) with the resulting flow rate, and best engine fuel efficiency. WOT is reserved for moving the tractor to and from the job site ONLY.

Component pressure ratings are maximums. Your GT will not achieve more than about 1200 psi with those cylinders and still keep the rear wheels on the ground with maximum realistic ballast. (My 1655 carries as much as 865 lb of rear ballast and has lots of air time on the rear tires with a max pressure of 1500 psi and a 5" longer wheelbase. Note that that results in over 2000 lb of lifting force, or 4000 lb of load on the front tires that are rated for 1880 lb between the two of them.)

Note that the front axle of a 1655 is considerably more robust than that of a 1650, and I have broken the spindles off of mine 3 times before getting the welds correct.

Hydraulic system design begins with the choice of actuators and the speed desired from them. This establishes the rate of flow required from the pump at operational speed. Hose size selection for the primary circuit is determined by the maximum flow rate expected, for the work circuits, 1/4" hose or 3/8" steel tubing is the norm.

Your selection of lift cylinders is about right for a FEL on a 1650. The bucket curl cylinders are acceptable, but a bit on the large size. The cylinders on my 1655 are 2x18 for the lift and 1.5x13.5 for the curl.

Construction tips (in no particular order):

  • Subframe to butt up against the rear axle.
  • Bucket to be flat on the floor 3" below the bottoms of the tires.
  • Observe clearance between the hood and the crossmember between the arms.
  • Observe the clearance between the posts and the rear fenders for foot placement for ease of getting on or off the tractor in a hurry.
  • Utilize the post(s) for fluid reservoir. Two gallon capacity recommended, including space for heat expansion. (1.6 -1.8 gallons actual fluid)
  • Arm length (post pin to bucket pin) - approximately 59-62" for a 1650 ( 65.5" on my 1655).
  • Observe clearance between arms and cylinders with the front tires when in lock to lock turn and full axle tilt left and right.
I recommend at least 2500 psi pressure ratings for the work lines. While the relief valve will prevent such high pressures coming from the pump, it offers no such protection when the cutting edge connects with an immovable object at speed. Cutting edge impacts, and the resultant pressure spikes, are part and parcel with FEL operations.

Loaded rear tires are essential and form the basis for the ballasting program with a FEL. 2-Link chains are next, especially on turfs for snow duty. Third is wheel weights, and 4th is rear end weight (ideally on a 3PH). Ballast weight (operator NOT included) should equal at least 2/3 of the anticipated bucket payload,
 
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