[Charliespride]

Trying to get the ol farm tractor after sitting for about 10yrs hoping to work a small piece of ground. I have new points and condenser installed and weak 6V battery. Still nothing until I robbed the coil off the super M and have spark until battery peters out. Yet I always remember dad running this tractor without a functioning battery and charging system. Is it imperative that the battery be strong on these vintage systems ?? Thank you

 

[DJ54]

If the generator is working, it should provide enough for it to run, even with a weak battery.You could try jumping it, and as said, if the generator & voltage regulator are working, it should run.

Just don't kill it, while in the back 40...

 

[Charliespride]

Thanks DJ, I guess I'll have to get engine running first before I can test if the generator is working.
I'm stumped though as how dad was able to use thAt tractor with the ammeter also showing discharge. He had a bunch of restored farmalls that I couldn't look after all of them and 11 yrs later I regret not keeping my great Uncles Super H but at the time I was simply overwhelmed with them all. I still kept the gorgeous Super M and this Super C but she's rough.

Any straight forward method of testing charge on generator ?? Thanks again.

 

[DJ54]

If the battery at that time, would have held some what of a charge, it would run off of it, until the batter is nearly dead. So putting it on a charger for a while, then hand cranking it to start, it would run for a good while. Unless of course it was equipped with a magneto, which is only required for the starting system, not the ignition.

Other than taking it to a generator repair shop, there is a way to test them called the motor test. I've read about it, but never tried it. It will, I believe take a charged battery to do the test though. If you do a search for motor testing a generator, I'm sure one will give step by step instructions.

 

[Charliespride]

Goes to show how much I truly don't know about these systems DJ,, I always thought if the tractor was equipped with a Magneto, then it was self contained to fire the ignition. Or on the other hand, if it had a 6V battery and distributor caps points and condenser, then it wouldn't have a Mag.

I remember from years ago when the dial to turn on the headlights was turn to the first click, the ammeter would show a "discharge" so man I'm stumped as to what's wrong with it other than once the battery drains so does the tractor engine power.

know I've tried about everything I know of to get her going and still she won't even Snap. I bought a new 6V coil for it yesterday and didn't pay close attention to the polarity of the old coil. The - side wire to coil from on/off switch I think then + side of coil to distributor gave minimal spark through spark tester and I thought I'd try reversing polarity and maybe take a chance of burning coil out but way better spark but still not starting. Frustrating to say the least. Haha.

 

[DJ54]

Are you getting fuel to the cylinders/plugs..?? If you've turned it over numerous times with the choke applied, the plugs should be wet. If they are not, it may be a fuel delivery problem, not ignition.

 

[Charliespride]

Yes getting fuel to cylinders and she floods so easily. Then I'll shut choke and fuel petcock off and still nothing. I've also tryied priming a pair of cylinders and she just won't snap.

At times when I give it a hard full crank on the start handle, it'll seem at times it'll roll over like it trying to start but just don't get that tell tale bark out the muffler. Bought tried everything I know how to do but pull my hair out. Like that would solve anything. I've been at this now for about 5 different days to no avail.

 

[DJ54]

On any of mine, at most, two cranks at full choke, then knock it off is all it takes to get gas up, enough to start, at about 1/3 throttle. Normally within any where from 1, to 3 cranks and they start.

If you have a decent set of jumper cables, might be an idea to jump it to start, with the starter. Just make sure it's positive to positive, and negative to negative. And don't crank on it too long. Once you get it running, it may not take that much to get it started by hand.

My one Super C at the other place hasn't been ran since last Sept. I needed to move it in the barn last Wed. After putting the battery charger on it for a half hour, two cranks full choke, knocked it off, and the next crank she started. Love that ole' tractor...

 

[Charliespride]

I forgot to mention that the starter doesn't work either. Sounds like something Sandford and Son might own. Haha. Of all the gorgeous restorations dad completed with about 6 farmalls that I ended up selling for Mom after Dad passed away in 04' I had to keep this ol girl and the Super M but in all fairness this Super C was Dads only work tractor that he would allow Dirt on the tires and besides it has Hydraulics when none of the others did.

You're right though DJ, normally a few partial cranks with full choke and throttle about 1/3 then choke off and away she would go but it's say now for 11yrs and I never thought she'd give me so much grief to bring her back to life again.

Not sure why but Dad seemed content to not have everything working on this C when all his other show tractors were immaculate with everything working as it did from the factory.

I know the battery has a full charge on it now and push in on the start button on the starter and there's nothing. No noise at all. Another piece to the puzzle.

 

[DJ54]

It could be the contact surfaces under the rocker type starting switch have arced, and burned enough, to not make contact. Just remove the wires from it, and isolate so as not to touch the chassis, then remove the two screws, and look underneath. Using the end of a medium sized flat file, you can clean the contact underneath, or turn it 180º, and use the other side of the beveled surface to make contact. Then touch up the button stud on the starter.

It may also be the ground cable, where it attaches to the chassis. Remove it, and clean well, so it has a bright surface to make contact on the chassis. I've seen the crimped on cable ends loose too. A bad ground connection could be a cause of weak spark also.

 

[Charliespride]

Good stuff DJ, I'll go out and give that a try with the starter. Thank You for the info.

One of the very first things I did was to pull apart all connections to inspect for corrosion and clean although everything look decent.

Any idea of I have that ignition coil hooked up right though ?? I don't wanna burn her out prematurely if I can help it.

Negative side of coil goes to the primary wire that runs along tractor frame that I believe comes from push/pull on/off switch. Then positive + side primary runs down to distributor for points and condenser. But she throws much hotter spark than - to points.

 

[DJ54]

If you're set up with a positive ground, as it should be, + should go to the distributor.

Being the starter grounds itself to the chassis through the case, you might want to remove it, or at least the bolts, and make sure there is some bright connection under the mounting bolts/lock washers, and threaded holes the mounting bolts thread in to.

 

[Charliespride]

Unreal DJ I got the starter to work. Yee hah. Now to get the rest of it running. Haha

 

[DJ54]

What was the problem..??

 

[Charliespride]

Can't believe what I found but I kept thinking I had timing issues and the distributor cap is marked #1 furthest away from engine but I finally decided to pull the valve cover and check compression of #1 and the rotor faced 180* out (which would be #4) so I changed wires so #1 was closest to engine (where 4 was suppose to be according to service manual ) and set wires to 1-3-4-2 and I no more hit the starter button and bang away she purred. Makes no sense to me how or why but she's running and sounding good at idle. Ruined the valve cover cork gasket but I'm thrilled she's finally running. Thanks again DJ for hanging with me on this.

Hey maybe I could ask you why the ammeter shows discharge when I turn the knob for lights on ?? It's always done this as long as I can remember and would love to have it charging. Thanks again DJ. Ernie

 

[DJ54]

If the lights are working, apparently they are drawing more amperage, than the generator is putting out, if it is putting anything out at all. It's probably just showing that it is discharging the battery. Should be a 4 position switch, and there should be a decal, with 4 letters on it. L,H,D,B. L = Low charge. H = High charge. D = Dim lights B = Bright lights, and should light up the rear light if it has one.

Might check around for local starter/alternator/generator repair shop. They can bench test it, and see if it is working. Unless the armature is bad, they can make it like new again with new bearings, brushes, etc. for, at least around here about $75 U.S. It could be it's just needing a voltage regulator. I get decent one's through my starter repair guy for around $45-$50.

No problem, glad to help... That's what we're all here for..!!

 

[Charliespride]

All was going great until I just went to out in into gear and she's grinding so bad it must be low on fluid of some kind. Engine oil is up though. Does the clutch run off same tank as hydraulic fluid for attachments ??

 

[Charliespride]

I see the manual calls for SAE 80 in the transmission. Heaviest I've seen in local parts supply stores is 30.

I'm wondering too what weight for the hydraulic tank ?? Thanks again.

 

[DJ54]

You kind of lost me on the "Does the clutch run off same tank as hydraulic fluid for attachments ??" That is a dry clutch, and the hydraulic reservoir sets under the gas tank. There is no oil reservoir in the torque tube.

There is a small square head, transmission level check plug behind the right axle housing. I believe it is just under the center line of the PTO shaft.

Most auto parts places do carry 80-90 wt oil. If you want to drain it, and refill, it will take 5 gallons. If you drain it, and the oil looks milky, it would be best to get several gallons of cheap automatic trans fluid, like Dexron II. Pour that, plus a quart of isopropyl/ rubbing alcohol in the tranny, then drive it around for a bit. The Dexron II is high detergent, and will wash the interior of the trans down. The alcohol will remove any water that may be in there. You can even throw in a gallon of diesel fuel if it makes you feel better. After driving it around for a bit, drain immediately while crud is suspended in the mixture. Let it drain completely, then add the new trans oil.

For the hydraulics, Hy-Tran is the OEM brand oil, but a good auto/truck supply should carry a Trans-draulic fluid. Just make sure to read the label, and make sure it meets Hy-Tran specs. It is pretty thin, comparable to a 10 weight oil. A lot of guys use 30 weight non-detergent in the hydraulics, in case the seal in the hydraulic pump may be leaking, so as not to dilute the engine oil with Hy-Tran, or it's equivalent. But it could make the hydraulics pretty slow in cold weather. I use a Hy-Tran equivalent myself, but I do check the hydraulic level frequently, and engine oil every time I use it.

 

[Charliespride]

Yes I caught myself after I sent last reply that indeed it is a dry mechanical clutch DJ thankfully I found some proper hydraulic fluid Dad had bought and I added a bit to the reservoir. I left the fill cap off until I hooked the discs up and cycled them a few times in case I had over filled it, any excess could run out fill hole which it didn't.

I found the square nut on right rear of drive axle and added enough 80/90 gear oil by gear shift until it started to run out of the lower right. It was dark but certainly not milky

Found out though that leaving these old tractors without running them the clutch will seize up and no way could I get it into gear with engine started as it ground like crazy. Thankfully was able to find a thread on the good ol internet where you pull the tractor with switch OFF and in 3rd or 4th gear and clutch pedal depressed for 20'-30' then hook onto rear of tractor and do same in reverse and sure enough it freed up the clutch in short order. Got it hooked up to the old 8' set of discs out back. Greased them up and pumped the tires up and made sure the discs were turning freely. Just got it ready to turn ground and in come the rain again and left some sizeable water pockets laying in the small 2 acre field I wanted to work haha so I'll have to wait now until next weekend when I return to our farm to try the setup out. I never thought it could so much trouble and frustration getting this vintage equipment up and running again but it's proven to be rewarding too. Thanks to a person like yourself DJ for hanging in there with me to get me going is something I certainly appreciate. God bless you sir. Ernie Roberts