[holov]

Hello all I've been recently looking into getting a case 44X. I found a listing for a 79 444 with rototiller, mower deck, snow blower, cab with windshield wiper and fan, and a leaf vacuum/blower. The guy wants at least $2200 for this set. Is this a fair price?

The guy said all the attachments work are in good shape, and that the unit runs like a charm, just could use a paintjob. Only problem he said he ever had was that he needed to replace the head at one point and that he did that so its back to good working order.

Thanks immensely for your comments as I was planning to go look at it in the next few days and didn't want to make a mistake.

 

[99flhr]

If all those attachments are Case / Ingersoll, then the asking price is not too far off.
If the condition is good, you better be the first guy there with simoleons and a trailer.
JMO

 

[castoff]

His asking price seems reasonable IF everything is in excellent condition and working order. Paint on a 30 year old tractor is rarely in excellent condition. What matters most is the condition of the engine. If it does not smoke badly on start-up and it clears quickly as the engine warms up, then that's a good sign. If there is no trace of blue-tinged exhaust smoke when the engine is asked to work hard, then that's an even better sign.

The clutch is the next major issue. It should get progressively harder to push the clutch lever forward until you reach a certain point and then it should sort of snap into the final resting spot as you complete the push. The lever should stay there at all times until you decide to dis-engage the clutch. With the engine running and the clutch dis-engaged, the implement should stop turning at some point and then stay still no matter how fast or slow the engine is spinning.

If he's asking $2200.00, offer him $1800.00 for it and settle at $2000.00. I base this assessment on the fact that the following items bring these amounts on e-Bay currently.

- tiller - $400.00
- snowcaster $350.00
- steel cab - $350.00
- Hydra-Bagger $600.00
- sleeve hitch - $175.00
- rear PTO valve - $200.00
- plastic wheel weights - $100.00/pr
- tire chains - $50.00 /pr
- three-point hitch - $450.00
- F-27 sleeve hitch adapter - $175.00
Shipping extra - taxes extra

Some of the above, you did not mention, likely because you don't understand what's needed to make the implements work on a tractor. The tiller must mount to either a sleeve hitch directly or to a three-point hitch that is fitted with a F-27 adapter frame that converts the sleeve hitch tiller to three-point mounting.

The tiller and the Hydra-Bagger both require the rear hydraulic PTO valve to provide hydraulic power to them. Snowcasters and tillers work better if the tractor has wheel weights and tire chains and the tiller works even better if the optional front counterweight is there too. A set of suitcase weights and mounting bracket is worth $400.00 all day long and so is the older mounting bracket with the 4 round cast-iron wheel weights bolted to it.

If you don't know what a Hydra-Bagger looks like, then go to the Ingersoll website and see it there so you know what it is you are looking at when you go to see this tractor. Package deals are often bargain deals because it would cost you a lot more to "build" a bare bones tractor into what this guy has than what it will cost you to buy his package. The prices I gave you are just a guideline as to what decent attachments bring on the open market. Condition is paramount and your eyes along with your gut should be able to guide you as to how these attachments were looked after.

 

[99flhr]

^ Can`t disagree with those prices, notice that the tractor is not included.
Therefore it`s free.

 

[JSB Case]

I saw this ad on craigslist and was interested in the cab. I contacted the seller and he would not sell it separate from the tractor. If you buy the tractor, I would be interested in buying the cab if you need to recoup some cash.

 

[holov]

His asking price seems reasonable IF everything is in excellent condition and working order. Paint on a 30 year old tractor is rarely in excellent condition. What matters most is the condition of the engine. If it does not smoke badly on start-up and it clears quickly as the engine warms up, then that's a good sign. If there is no trace of blue-tinged exhaust smoke when the engine is asked to work hard, then that's an even better sign.

The clutch is the next major issue. It should get progressively harder to push the clutch lever forward until you reach a certain point and then it should sort of snap into the final resting spot as you complete the push. The lever should stay there at all times until you decide to dis-engage the clutch. With the engine running and the clutch dis-engaged, the implement should stop turning at some point and then stay still no matter how fast or slow the engine is spinning.

If he's asking $2200.00, offer him $1800.00 for it and settle at $2000.00. I base this assessment on the fact that the following items bring these amounts on e-Bay currently.

- tiller - $400.00
- snowcaster $350.00
- steel cab - $350.00
- Hydra-Bagger $600.00
- sleeve hitch - $175.00
- rear PTO valve - $200.00
- plastic wheel weights - $100.00/pr
- tire chains - $50.00 /pr
- three-point hitch - $450.00
- F-27 sleeve hitch adapter - $175.00
Shipping extra - taxes extra

Some of the above, you did not mention, likely because you don't understand what's needed to make the implements work on a tractor. The tiller must mount to either a sleeve hitch directly or to a three-point hitch that is fitted with a F-27 adapter frame that converts the sleeve hitch tiller to three-point mounting.

The tiller and the Hydra-Bagger both require the rear hydraulic PTO valve to provide hydraulic power to them. Snowcasters and tillers work better if the tractor has wheel weights and tire chains and the tiller works even better if the optional front counterweight is there too. A set of suitcase weights and mounting bracket is worth $400.00 all day long and so is the older mounting bracket with the 4 round cast-iron wheel weights bolted to it.

If you don't know what a Hydra-Bagger looks like, then go to the Ingersoll website and see it there so you know what it is you are looking at when you go to see this tractor. Package deals are often bargain deals because it would cost you a lot more to "build" a bare bones tractor into what this guy has than what it will cost you to buy his package. The prices I gave you are just a guideline as to what decent attachments bring on the open market. Condition is paramount and your eyes along with your gut should be able to guide you as to how these attachments were looked after.

Thanks very much for this information. It will definitely help when going to look at the unit. My main concern was that I wasn't sure if the price was way out of whack. I just missed a 446 with a plow/snowcaster/deck and a kawi 21hp for 1500 a few days ago.

Additionally, I've been reading a lot of posts on here and it certainly seems like some people get crazy good deals, but i guess it really depends on where you are and being at the right place at the right time.

I guess as you've stated with the attachments that come with the unit its probably reasonable....as long as it runs like a charm as the seller states.

I don't know what experience anyone has had with one engine vs the other in these (444/446/448), but is there a noticeable power difference between the 14hp Kohler vs the 16 and 18hp Onan?

Thanks again.

 

[holov]

I saw this ad on craigslist and was interested in the cab. I contacted the seller and he would not sell it separate from the tractor. If you buy the tractor, I would be interested in buying the cab if you need to recoup some cash.

I plan on doing a fair bit of snow blowing with the unit this winter and thought it might actually be helpful in that capacity, but if I decide I don't need it I'll definitely keep you in mind.

 

[holov]

If all those attachments are Case / Ingersoll, then the asking price is not too far off.
If the condition is good, you better be the first guy there with simoleons and a trailer.
JMO

Thanks very much for your opinion!

 

[teamsawbelly]

I have a 14hp Kohler in my John Deere 214 ( I would guess it's probably the same as the Case) and do not lack for power for ANYTHING. I have it hooked to a powerflo-bagger - chews the grass and spits it out and just got done plowing up some hard pan / gravel in my drive way with a front blade and it never even lugged the engine.

I have a Simplicity 2cylinder 18hp Briggs and Stranton Van Guard that lugs down in the high grass where the JD Kohler doesn't even flinch

 

[castoff]

A good running Kohler K-321 14 hp engine has gobs of low end torque that comes very close to what the Onan's put out. Where the extra ponies are noticeable is when you have 20 hp or more to spin a snowcaster in wet snow or a 60 inch deck while cutting tall, thick, damp grass. Since the hydraulic system isn't capable of transferring more than 12 to 14 hp to the rear wheels, any engine greater than 14 hp won't give you any more pushing or pulling power anyway.

Another member here grabbed that Kawi powered Case when the guy dropped the asking price. I had already posted that I thought it was a great buy at anywhere around 2 G's but at $1500.00 it was a super buy.

Don't dilly dally with this package or it's going to be gone before you realize it any you'll be back on here crying the blues like so many others have in the past. Do your research on the HydraBagger quickly and then get your butt over there with CASH in hand and a trailer in tow.

I have several 14 hp Kohler tractors and I'm very happy with the power they deliver and I also have 16 hp Onan's as a comparison.

Don't make the common mistake that many novices do by comparing the new higher hp rated engines to the older Kohler's and Onan's and form the belief that the old engines are lacking in power. To a certain degree, the new engines have HP ratings that are questionable and they have been under government scrutiny because of these dubious claims. The problem here is that uneducated owners based their buying decisions on the engine stickers showing certain HP ratings so the manufacturers just went along with the flow and kept offering higher HP tractors to gain sales.

 

[Snotrocket]

I'm guessing this is the tractor.

http://maine.craigslist.org/grd/1941598169.html


The attachments look to be in good shape from the pics.

 

[boomers_influence]

holov.
if indeed the pics that snot posted, are the ones of the tractor you want to purchase,he is incorrect in his ad.
GOOD news he says 79 when in fact it is 83/84, BLACK frame.
i would BE there ASAP, to purchase it.
good luck. boomer

 

[castoff]

Thanks S/R for finding that link. It always amazes me that owners don't have a clue about what they own.

That is NOT a 1979. It's a 1984. It has a sleeve hitch on it and there is no surprise that it also has wheel weights. I have some concerns.

1. That is a side-drive tiller but I can't tell if the extensions are there or not. It should be 41 inches wide with the extensions in place. There is a removable tine extension as well as a removable hood extension and drag shield extension. Make sure all of that is in place.

2. There is a Hydra-Bagger and then there is a Hydra-Vac. I don't see the bagger frame, bagger hood and the three net bags that sit in the frame. Maybe this is not a Hydra-Bagger after all. Maybe this is a Hydra-Vac instead. The vacuum unit that is visible in the photo and has a hose on it is the same, whether it is included with they Hydra-Bagger or the Hydra-Vac. The difference between the two units is that the Bagger has the bagging hood, frame and bags that mount on the rear of the tractor but the Vac spits all the debris into the converted dump cart that is pulled by the little tow plate welded to the back of the vacuum unit.

So if this is a VAC and not a Bagger, then where's the dump cart with the VAC conversion that encloses the four sides of the cart along with the mesh top that allows the air to escape? If it is a Bagger, then where's the bag frame, hood and bags?

When you go there, ask those questions. Get the guy to connect the vac unit to the PTO and prove to you that it works. He does not have to mount the vac physically to the tractor to make the fan spin but you need to know that the vac motor works and isn't puking oil out the seals or has a broken shaft.

Make sure that the bracket that bolts to the rear of the tractor and accepts the vac unit is there along with the BOOT and deflector that bolts onto the mower deck.

3. I don't think that this cab was ever on this tractor. This cab is from tractor that was made before 1977 when the tractors were painted Desert Sunset. Where are the doors for this cab? If he has them, what shape are they in? The prices I quoted are for attachments that are COMPLETE and in good repair. Make sure that the cab's front mounting brackets are there. Go now to the Ingersoll site and start printing out the parts books for the J-2 cab, the side-drive tiller, the Hydra-Vac, the Hydra-Bagger and the dump cart.

Go there with those books and start comparing what he is selling to what's in those books. No matter how you cut it, there is a lot of value in that package but you need to figure what might be missing.

 

[holov]

Wow good guess....you guys really have your hands on the pulse of whats going on....and I would have never caught the year discrepancy....I'm definitely glad I posted....that was the listing.....I've got a visit planned for tomorrow with the seller to go and see it. I'll do some research as has been suggested tonight and ask the questions recommended.

Anything better about the 84 year than the 79?
I had read about the holding valve being added in 80, but not much else.

Thank you all again for your help, I really appreciate it!
Hopefully tomorrow will be a good day.

 

[holov]

Thanks S/R for finding that link. It always amazes me that owners don't have a clue about what they own.

That is NOT a 1979. It's a 1984. It has a sleeve hitch on it and there is no surprise that it also has wheel weights. I have some concerns.

1. That is a side-drive tiller but I can't tell if the extensions are there or not. It should be 41 inches wide with the extensions in place. There is a removable tine extension as well as a removable hood extension and drag shield extension. Make sure all of that is in place.

2. There is a Hydra-Bagger and then there is a Hydra-Vac. I don't see the bagger frame, bagger hood and the three net bags that sit in the frame. Maybe this is not a Hydra-Bagger after all. Maybe this is a Hydra-Vac instead. The vacuum unit that is visible in the photo and has a hose on it is the same, whether it is included with they Hydra-Bagger or the Hydra-Vac. The difference between the two units is that the Bagger has the bagging hood, frame and bags that mount on the rear of the tractor but the Vac spits all the debris into the converted dump cart that is pulled by the little tow plate welded to the back of the vacuum unit.

So if this is a VAC and not a Bagger, then where's the dump cart with the VAC conversion that encloses the four sides of the cart along with the mesh top that allows the air to escape? If it is a Bagger, then where's the bag frame, hood and bags?

When you go there, ask those questions. Get the guy to connect the vac unit to the PTO and prove to you that it works. He does not have to mount the vac physically to the tractor to make the fan spin but you need to know that the vac motor works and isn't puking oil out the seals or has a broken shaft.

Make sure that the bracket that bolts to the rear of the tractor and accepts the vac unit is there along with the BOOT and deflector that bolts onto the mower deck.

3. I don't think that this cab was ever on this tractor. This cab is from tractor that was made before 1977 when the tractors were painted Desert Sunset. Where are the doors for this cab? If he has them, what shape are they in? The prices I quoted are for attachments that are COMPLETE and in good repair. Make sure that the cab's front mounting brackets are there. Go now to the Ingersoll site and start printing out the parts books for the J-2 cab, the side-drive tiller, the Hydra-Vac, the Hydra-Bagger and the dump cart.

Go there with those books and start comparing what he is selling to what's in those books. No matter how you cut it, there is a lot of value in that package but you need to figure what might be missing.

I checked Ingersol's website, but was unable to find the parts books you speak of. Can you point me in the right direction? I tried searching for each of those items with no results.

 

[boomers_influence]

holov.
in my opinion 84 ,is better, 2" longer W.B.(you can use the 60" deck)
both could be had with the optional hold valve.
boomer

 

[holov]

holov.
in my opinion 84 ,is better, 2" longer W.B.(you can use the 60" deck)
both could be had with the optional hold valve.
boomer

Thanks.

 

[Snotrocket]

Where in Maine are you? I'm in Owls Head just outside Rockland.

If castoff is right (which he usually is:thThumbsU) that cab won't fit the tractor. It will be to short and the mounting for the front of it on the footrests won't be right.

I'm sure you would have no problem selling it though.

 

[holov]

Where in Maine are you? I'm in Owls Head just outside Rockland.

If castoff is right (which he usually is:thThumbsU) that cab won't fit the tractor. It will be to short and the mounting for the front of it on the footrests won't be right.

I'm sure you would have no problem selling it though.

I'm in the Bath Area. Very Interesting about the cab...I'll make sure to check it when I'm there. I'm sure there's a story behind it...

 

[castoff]

I checked Ingersol's website, but was unable to find the parts books you speak of. Can you point me in the right direction? I tried searching for each of those items with no results.

Click on this link.

http://www.eastmanind.com/INGERSOLL/IngersollAttachments/tabid/196/Default.aspx


On the left side, there is a series of red stripes. Click on the X for the Bagger and Vacs and choose the bottom one- B-98.

The click on the X for the Tillers and choose the HT-32

Unfortunately, the idiots at Ingersoll no longer show the parts manuals for the J1 and J2 cabs.

This "new" site of theirs is highly annoying because it is at best, half as good as the old one.