My Tractor Forum banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
hey guys,
Well with the help of Brian H. and some others on the forum i got my deck back together. Went to mow the yard today and would you know it the tractor wouldn't start. tugging on the wires and cable coming from the battery I found an unconnected wire coming from the negative side of the battery. it has a terminal eye on one end and is about 12 inches long or so. Pulling the service panel and looking at the wiring diagrams its not obvious where this goes. Any help you guys can give me would be appreciated. the tractor is an 87 446.
thanks
Chaz
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,634 Posts
Wiring diagrams are shown @ Ingersoltractor.com under "Illustrated Parts Lists"
You,ll need the serial # from your dash tower to view the one applicable to your yr & model. This will show you how it should be, as opposed to mods made by P.O.`s over the past 23 years. My `87 has two black wires from the neg. term., neither has an eye and both go to junction devices.
Hope this helps
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
thanks
I've looked at the wiring diagrams for my 446 Ingersoll #141124xx and can't make the connection to where this wire should go. Other than the battery cable and this wire which is about 2 feet long and not 12 in as I posted earlier, there is one other wire which terminates in a splice behind the dash area. I'm sure this was a ground to something which worked loose i just can't figure out what.
C
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
The tractor will not crank, looking at the electrical diagram again it appears to be the wire to the rectifier. (although the wiring diagram seemingly shows this wire changing from black to black/yellow. What I think i need to know is where is the rectifier located.
thanks
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,500 Posts
If the tractor won't crank, then the safety switches and wiring is the likely problem.

Do you own battery jumper cables? If so, find the solenoid and use ONE of the jumper leads. Jump the big lugs on the solenoid. If the starter spins, then the wire you are wondering about is likely broken away from the solenoid or one of the safety switches. Use your wiring diagram to figure it out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,577 Posts
There should be 2 small black wires on the battery negative pole. One goes to the voltage sensor plug & the other goes to the regulator ground. Judging by the length it probably goes to the regulator but the other black wire to the voltage sensor plug also provides a path to ground for the safety switches. I would be more inclined to choose this one because it won't start due to a safety switch missing a ground path.

:fing20:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,500 Posts
I'm not sure as to what manual RMC is referring to but according to the serial number you posted for your 446, the solenoid finds its ground by way of the travel lever making contact with the neutral safety switch. There is but ONE wire leaving the battery negative terminal other than the heavy battery cable and that wire goes to provide a solid ground for the regulator.

It sounds to me like some PO has butchered your wiring harness and you will need to use the correct wiring diagram to sort out which wires are connected properly and which are not. It's not something that members here can resolve for you. This is a hands-on project that is done one wire at a time and all wires that should not be there must be removed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,577 Posts
The way I see it, viewing the proper wiring diagram for serial # 14112151, it shows the main black ground wire from the battery (-) to the frame. 2 small black wires, one creating a ground for the regulator and the other small black wire creating a ground through the PTO safety switch. The small black wire from the battery (-) to the regulator is mearly a backup ground. If I have mis-read the diagram, I apologize. I will agree that you never know what the PO have done to the wiring and a ( thorough go through ) is the best way to resolve a wiring issue.

:trink40:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
RestMyCase,
I read the wiring diagrasm the same as you do. The wire going to the Voltage sensor/hourmeter is obvious. leaving the other wire to go to the rectifier. My problem is I'm not sure where the rectifier is located or what it looks like. I don't see anything obvious behind the service panel.
thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,616 Posts
the reg/rectifier should be attached to the back of the panel. It is a small square 'block', maybe 1.5x1.5 inches with a three wire plug attached. The bolt that passes through the panel and rectifier not only mechanically attaches it, but on early versions was also the ground. Some have an added ground to the battery as the first configuration was trouble-prone.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,500 Posts
Manual that covers this tractor is 446 P.I.N. 14041700 AND AFTER. I think that we can agree on that, can we not? If so, then there are 4 wiring diagrams in that manual. The first two show the ever popular one-piece serrated neutral safety switch which is ITEM 11. Please note the ground icon coming from the middle of that switch. This is the point where the solenoid finally finds ground in order to close and pass current to the starter motor.

In the next two wiring diagrams, the later 2-piece neutral safety switch is used and is marked ITEM 16 and ITEM 17 for the top and bottom halves. Once again, note the ground icons coming from the centers of each switch half and just like before, this is the point where the starter solenoid finds ground.

Now... if I'm looking in the wrong book or at the wrong diagram then please correct me. The OP cannot get his tractor to turn over. The first thing to do is to jump the solenoid with a booster cable to make sure that the starter actually functions. If it fails to spin. The put one end of the booster cable right on the battery cable lug on the starter and touch the other end of the booster cable to the positive terminal of the battery. If the battery is fully charged and properly grounded, then the starter will spin if it is good. If it doesn't spin, then odds are it's defective.

If jumping the solenoid alone makes the starter spin, then either the solenoid is defective or there is a problem with power coming to the solenoid from the key switch or problem with the solenoid finding ground. A test light or a multi-meter will isolate the problem quite quickly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,577 Posts
Nobody is questioning the fact that the solenoid finds it's ground through the neutral safety switch to complete the circuit to start. Your test procedure is valid. The discussion here is regarding 2 small black wires from the battery negative post and where they go. I think it is pretty clear there are 2 wires, not one, and that second wire is in the PTO lamp/safety switch circuit. This circuit will not prevent the starter from operating, only to indicate to the operator that the PTO clutch is engaged. The black wire going to the regulator is something Case/Ingersoll should have done from the get-go on all the models with the regulator mounted on the inspection door. Relying on the R/R bolt & 2 door screws for a long lasting ground is not a smart decision. They obviously saw the light and incorporated the change. His model/year appears NOT to have the seat switch so with 12 VDC to the coil and jumping the solenoid, it should start. I am beginning to think the stray wire he happened to find has nothing to do with the no-start issue.

:fing20:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Hey all, I think RestMyCase is probably right and what I may have been dealing with here are a combination of issues. Thanks to antiqueetc's description of the voltage regulator I was able to see where the loose wire went and based on the fact that the bolt and nut holding the regulator to the cover were still in place I'm guessing that the wire was removed previously and never replaced. I'm also guessing that overtime the ground to the voltage regulator began to fail causing the battery not to charge or charge fully causing the tractor to not start. My checking the connections caused me to discover the loose wire which lead me to believe that it was the loose wire and not a weak battery which lead to the no cranking. Again thanks to all for taking the time to help me with this.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,500 Posts
OK.... no problem with what you are talking about.

It was your words in post 8 that said "Judging by the length it probably goes to the regulator but the other black wire to the voltage sensor plug also provides a path to ground for the safety switches." that had me confused. :trink39:
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top