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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
4020PS p.i.n. 14184109

Tractor has been sitting for 1 yr (indoors)
Rotating caster auger when not installed is smooth & easy
Attached snowcaster for the 1st time
Have factory belt and tension spring
Engine off, you can hear the clutch cycle when switched on/off
Engine off, pto off, rotate auger by hand and pto makes a scraping noise.
Engine on, pto off, all is quiet
Engine on, pto on, the noise is present.
Caster powers up fine, obviously there is no load

I assume the bearings in this unit are bad, viewing the parts list shows no breakdown for bearings and I assume they are integral with parts C32382/3/4
Can the bearings be removed and replaced ? or is it best to buy a replacement clutch?

Parts list indicates clutch # C33198 as replacement.
I`ve read threads indicating Warner 5215-108 is required, but..according to tewarehouse 5215-108 is the # replacing C33197 and they do not have the unit I need. ( that`s a pity as their price seems reasonable)

No, I have not checked the air gap.
? tear it down or just buy a new one ? Source ? I`d better call bhildret (again!)

Any input is appreciated. Thanks
 

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Most of these clutches are throwaway. Bearings are often not easily accessible due to the way the clutch is assembled. If I were you, I'd order a new clutch and just keep it on hand. I run the old one until it gets noisier or fails.
 

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Most of these clutches are throwaway. Bearings are often not easily accessible due to the way the clutch is assembled. If I were you, I'd order a new clutch and just keep it on hand. I run the old one until it gets noisier or fails.
IMO that is bad advise to run a noisy electric clutch until it fails. Failure can lead to expensive issues including failure of the engine bearings if the clutch coil shorts out during the final failure. Replace it while you are ahead.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
^ Agreed, listening to this thing is out of the question. I have time before the snow flys.
I should have added that it`s "kinda" loud.
Thank you both for the help.

Anybody else with a source ?
 

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IMO that is bad advise to run a noisy electric clutch until it fails. Failure can lead to expensive issues including failure of the engine bearings if the clutch coil shorts out during the final failure. Replace it while you are ahead.
Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion but a bad bearing doesn't lead to a coil short and this whole issue over shorting coils is totally overblown. Such an occurrence is rare. Since neither you nor I are there to actually hear the noise the OP mentioned, it becomes a judgment call that only he can make. Other than the annoyance factor, there is no need to change the clutch out until the bearing truly fails.
 

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I have never had a 4000 series clutch apart, but I have replaced bearings in several Cub Cadet (later models w/Vanguard engines). Cub also does not sell bearings nor do they have a repair procedure. But, it works. The bearings are staked into a stamped steel housing. I cut the stakes with a SHARP cape chisel, press out the bearing, press in the new one and restake it with the same cape chisel after slightly dulling it so it does cut so good, just rolls the metal like the original.

I would try it if I were you. Not much to lose, and you can save a bunch if it works. If not, just order a new one and you're only out the cost of the bearing, maybe, if you can't return it.
 

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Not only is it a clutch it is a brake also. The break engages as soon as the power is turned off. They no doubt have bearing problems mostly from running in a high temp environment. The lube thins and runs out and the moisture comes in.
Ingersoll has a replacement upgrade for this clutch P/N C48626. The original clutch is a C47444/Warner P/N 5215-42.
Bob MacGregor in CT:thThumbsU
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The original clutch is a C47444/Warner P/N 5215-42.
Bob MacGregor in CT:thThumbsU


tewarehouse shows 5215-42 as being used on Vanguard powered units.
I failed to mention I have an Onan. Sorry.

I guess that before I purchase any clutch I have to resolve in my mind the following.
Engine off / pto off/ rotate auger, it makes noise. In this configuration the "drive" is stationary and the "driven" part is moving.
Engine on/ pto off/ it`s quiet. In this configuration the "drive" is turning and the "driven" part is stationary.

So.. in both situations movement exists between the same two parts, yet it makes noise in only one set-up. Am I overthinking a simple problem ?
 

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If you remove the belt from the electric clutch and then rotate the auger to make sure its the clutch and not the auger making the noise. I`d even check any and all pulleys that the belt rides on to make sure a bearing isn't going out. I`d check all of these first before ordering a expensive electric clutch. This may sound simplistic, but after you install a new clutch and the noise is still there, you`d be kicking yourself. You have to remove the belt anyway to install the clutch.
 

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TEW is incorrect, a Warner 5215-42 is for an Onan, I know as I have replaced three of them on my 4018 prior to repowering it with a Vanguard 18 which has a different series clutch.
With engine off and PTO off, when you turn the clutch you hear the brake in the clutch dragging. These electric clutches are a combination clutch and brake. By Federal safety regs when the PTO is turned off the mower blades must stop turning within a specified time period, this is where the brake part of the clutch does its job.
Bob MacGregor in CT:thThumbsU
 

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When I repowered my 1990 4018/Onan with a Vanguard 18 from Jims Repair a reducer bushing was provided in the repower kit to install into the 5215-42 clutch and use it on the Vanguard that has a 1" OD crankshaft. I did this and have since upgraded to a higher torque rated clutch of 105 FT LBs from the -42 of 70 FT LBs and with a 1" ID so it fits directly onto the Vanguard crankshaft with no bushing required.
I'm pleased with the higher torque rated clutch and although it has a slightly smaller pulley diameter I didn't have to change drive belt sizes for any of my attachments, RM48 deck and SB48 snow blower.
The C48626 clutch kit from Ingersoll is an upgrade that uses a different series Warner clutch which has a torque rating of 105 or 125 FT LBs. The kit includes all the parts needed to install it on an Onan in a 4000 series tractor.
Bob MacGregor in CT:thThumbsU:fam32::bump9:
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
A. Thanks to everyone for their input.
B. It occurs to me that having this forum as a resource has made me lazy, it`s easier to type than perform proper diagnostics.
C. The Warner # (5215-42) is ON MY CLUTCH ! If you bother to remove the hood and look !
D. I reset the air gap from .010 to .017 and performed the "burnishing" recommended for a new clutch. (thinking a bit of rust from being parked for a yr.)
E. All seems well, I may have to purchase a clutch for "stock" rather than fret over this one taking a powder in the middle of a blizzard.

Again, thank you and I`ll try to wrench rather than whine. LOL
 
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