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Have Dog - Will Travel
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Still snowing here, so I am puttering around online.

I share the first several hundred feet of my driveway with a neighbor. His house is about 1000' from the road, a piker compared to my 1500'. He has battled his septic system for years, maintaining a swampy section of lawn above the drainfield most of the time. He finally caved in (might be looking at selling the place in the future) and decided to connect to the sewer system that runs along the road at the end of our driveway. Back when the sewer lines were installed each homeowner was required to connect unless your setback was longer than a certain distance. I and neighbor were well beyond the required distance. At that time we were offered the option to "buy" and have installed the T in case of future need/desire to connect. It was made clear that installing the Tee during the installation would be substantially cheaper than doing it later should it be needed. I did, neighbor did not. Fast forward 10+ years, neighbor needs it and the price is more than 5 times greater what I paid. And, though he tried to convince the sewer authority to just tap into my Tee they were on the ball and protected my future.

Now to the purpose of this post. To get the line from house drain exit to the street connection, my neighbor selected to have a grinder and pump installed at the house, then run the sewer line through 1¾" PVC to the street. He also decided on contracting a directional driller rather than opening a trench. It saved him from trenching his turnaround and parking area, and also saved trenching the road (our luck, the line is other side of the road). Of course, my neighbor would never consider digging and repair like I did a couple years ago, (See Jere work: https://www.mytractorforum.com/88-my...ld-repair.html) he is more of the "money is no object" kind of guy.

Now, in another thread I was accused of being a snoopy neighbor, I prefer to think of myself as an "inquisitive Neighborhood watch" guy, and as I mentioned, this is a shared driveway for which I hold deed. So, I feel authorized to observe and chat with the workfolks (they bid this job and are not being paid by the hour by my neighbor).

A couple pictures:

This is the drill, the business end tips down into the ground and has a radio control that manages the steering:



You can see the battery of drill extensions there kind of boxed to the right, the operator backs his force exertion ram back, rolls another extension out of the box and drills another length. There is a large tank truck of water connected to the drill which provides some lubrication to the drill face. They tell me this drill is good for about 500' runs, but not in rocky soil (and it is very rocky here) so they are making 3-400' drill runs. Then they steer to the surface, hook the pvc to the ugly looking drill face, and pull it back to the drill machine.



Ultimately they will have three places where they have drawn two overlapping pipes to the surface. Here a backhoe will be brought in to excavate enough of a hole so the two pipe sections can be joined and buried.



I'll not likely ever hear a cost for this project, and I certainly hope I never learn what my even longer connection might cost. For now, I'll keep my shovel polished in my garage.
 

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Always nice to see Scout supervising, he should be paid well.
 

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13/4 inch PVC?...I see your pictures showing it happen so it must be approved there.....around here 4" no hub, cast, cement or clay is typically used...I don't think that diameter or material would be approved here...but I don't know of anyone with a sewage grinder here on Long Island either...
 

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Jere, it's always a good idea to keep an eye on whats going on in your neighborhood. Several years ago when the State put in the big box culvert for the seasonal "salmon stream" here they buried and plugged the perimeter drain outflow on my parents house even though we told every planner, designer, engineer, and county/state official that looked at the project years before the actual work began. We finally got it fixed at their expense a year after the project was completed at a cost of $4500 for 25 ft of 6" drain pipe and 2 guys with a pick and shovel to install it. It took them about 2.5-3 hours to complete.

On the other side is by observing you can learn something that may come in handy down the road. Local people can also point out things that can often be missed by outsiders. I'll end by saying I enjoy your threads on all of these different topics and it doesn't hurt to have a pic or two of scout in them also. :tango_face_wink:
 

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I'll never get to 10,000
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13/4 inch PVC?...I see your pictures showing it happen so it must be approved there.....around here 4" no hub, cast, cement or clay is typically used...I don't think that diameter or material would be approved here...but I don't know of anyone with a sewage grinder here on Long Island either...
Small pipe like that is the norm for pumped systems, although I would think 2" would be the minimum for the distance & quantity to be forced thru the main.

Jere, I would not want to think the cost of this either. I only have about 100' to road, but it will be a long time before our town even considers public sewers so no need to worry on our end. Thanks for the pictures and Scout should get a stipend from the utility co. for his inspection services.
 

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Small pipe like that is the norm for pumped systems, although I would think 2" would be the minimum for the distance & quantity to be forced thru the main.

Jere, I would not want to think the cost of this either. I only have about 100' to road, but it will be a long time before our town even considers public sewers so no need to worry on our end. Thanks for the pictures and Scout should get a stipend from the utility co. for his inspection services.
Learn something new every day :tango_face_wink:
 

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Red Plaid is Timeless
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A neighbor and I just this last October had grinder pump lift stations and septic mounds installed. Anytime poop has to run uphill it's going to need to be pumped. We had our grinder pumps and mounds installed at the same time to save a little money by having the same contractor here doing two systems. Both of our systems had to go under the township road and used directional boring-mine about 250' ($3200) and his about 420' (a bit over $4000). According to the boring crew, wet clay is absolutely the best and easiest for boring. We have really wet clay here-especially down about 6'-8' deep.

1-1/4" Schedule 80 PVC was used for the low pressure sewer line. I had a 2" Schedule 80 pulled along with the sewer line for power to the mound pump with plenty of room for future electrical options for a garage on the property across the road. The neighbor had an 1-1/4" Schedule 80 pulled in for the power to his mound pump. There was only one boring done for each of our systems and the pair of PVC lines (sewage and electrical) were pulled back in the same hole. My research on the grinder lift stations found the 1-1/4" is the standard size and will allow for some pretty good head pressure height. I'm only lifting about 12'. No gravity flow here. We are rural lakeshore homes and use property uphill and away from the lake for onsite sewage treatment.

I always wondered (mechanically wise) how the "direction" in directional boring actually works. Because the crew was being paid by me (and neighbor), I could ask a lot of questions and got a nice tutorial on how directional boring works. It is mechanically clever. The foreman on the job indicated that if I could understand how it works, I could have a job immediately. I did catch on but too much shoveling for my old back.

Describing how directional boring works would take a really long post!

Thanks for the interesting read, Jere!
 

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Now, in another thread I was accused of being a snoopy neighbor, I prefer to think of myself as an "inquisitive Neighborhood watch" guy, and as I mentioned, this is a shared driveway for which I hold deed. So, I feel authorized to observe and chat with the workfolks (they bid this job and are not being paid by the hour by my neighbor).
For sure you are being a snoopy neighbor. I like that a lot. Some folks that don't live in a rural neighbor hood won't likely get how valuable it is.
We have a young fellow with a wife and 2 kids not to far away from us that fired "warning shots" at someone who had broken into their place because there was not enough community involvement. Luckily he got off. The way it should have gone but easy to see how things can get out of hand.
Now we have new rules coming in along with more policing and government led neighborhood watch information.
Then there is always the info you seem to get. And that is just plain interesting.
Why bother retiring if you can't enjoy it!
 
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Jere, In our area we have a lot of electric underground transmission lines and in DC a contractor bored right into a 69,000 volt transmission line that was in a steel pipe with pressurized oil. The oil leaked out, contaminated the soil and leaked out all over the place and into the Potomac river. It knocked the power out in a substation and the neighborhoods the substation was feeding. Oil spilled into the river, they had to get environmental people out to clean up the river. Contain the soil in 55 Gallon drums. It cost the contractor 1.5 million dollars and put him out of business.

I hope your guy called Miss Utility and dug test pits on the obstructions he's crossing. Otherwise he may accidentally hit them. If he's crossing the road he's going to need elevations of the obstructions (other utilities).
 
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For sure you are being a snoopy neighbor. I like that a lot. Some folks that don't live in a rural neighbor hood won't likely get how valuable it is.
We have a young fellow with a wife and 2 kids not to far away from us that fired "warning shots" at someone who had broken into their place because there was not enough community involvement. Luckily he got off. The way it should have gone but easy to see how things can get out of hand.
Now we have new rules coming in along with more policing and government led neighborhood watch information.
Then there is always the info you seem to get. And that is just plain interesting.
Why bother retiring if you can't enjoy it!

We have a neighborhood watch program where as every block has a captain that you report suspicious activity to and they report it to the police. We also have monthly homeowners association meetings. Most residents have burglar alarms and cameras. But its always good to have a resident like Jere walking around checking on things.
These signs are posted in our neighborhood.
 

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Have Dog - Will Travel
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Jere, In our area we have a lot of electric underground transmission lines and in DC a contractor bored right into a 69,000 volt transmission line that was in a steel pipe with pressurized oil. The oil leaked out, contaminated the soil and leaked out all over the place and into the Potomac river. It knocked the power out in a substation and the neighborhoods the substation was feeding. Oil spilled into the river, they had to get environmental people out to clean up the river. Contain the soil in 55 Gallon drums. It cost the contractor 1.5 million dollars and put him out of business.

I hope your guy called Miss Utility and dug test pits on the obstructions he's crossing. Otherwise he may accidentally hit them. If he's crossing the road he's going to need elevations of the obstructions (other utilities).
Here it's called PA 1 Call, and You probably can't see the flagged and painted lines indicating route of various underground utilities, but they are there, and properly away from where these folks are drilling.
 
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Jere, That's good they called to have the utilities marked. A lot of times they are inaccurate. If he is working along side of your driveway take some pictures of the machine on your driveway and any vehicle or equipment so you have full recourse if they damage your driveway or any bushes they knock over or trees they hit. That bore machine is on tracks and you know he's tearing up the grass. I'm surprised they don't install a 4 inch inter duct instead of 1 and 3/4. All the house sewer lines where we live are 4 inch but I think none of them have a sewage grinder with a jet pump. I would think you want the largest conduit or pipe because of any blockage in the future you want to be able to clear it. When they pull back that one and three quarter inch tubing or duct it will flatten out underground just from them pulling it in and not be a true one and three quarter inch in diameter. It will be less. If there is any rock underground the tubing they are pulling in could get cut up, just from scraping against the rock.

On another note: The electric service and communication/fiber lines to the new "Building the House" thread they may be directional bored in too.
 

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Jere, That's good they called to have the utilities marked. A lot of times they are inaccurate. If he is working along side of your driveway take some pictures of the machine on your driveway and any vehicle or equipment so you have full recourse if they damage your driveway or any bushes they knock over or trees they hit. That bore machine is on tracks and you know he's tearing up the grass. I'm surprised they don't install a 4 inch inter duct instead of 1 and 3/4. All the house sewer lines where we live are 4 inch but I think none of them have a sewage grinder with a jet pump. I would think you want the largest conduit or pipe because of any blockage in the future you want to be able to clear it. When they pull back that one and three quarter inch tubing or duct it will flatten out underground just from them pulling it in and not be a true one and three quarter inch in diameter. It will be less. If there is any rock underground the tubing they are pulling in could get cut up, just from scraping against the rock.

On another note: The electric service and communication/fiber lines to the new "Building the House" thread they may be directional bored in too.
You and I are used to flowing sewage as opposed to pumped...to pump into a 4" line would probably require a larger pump...what we are seeing called a "grinder" is called a macerator on a boat...sounds like it is being pumped uphill, at least for part of its trip out to the street connection....so the uphill section of the line has to get filled all the way...and to fill up a 4" line would take a lot of the slurry being pumped...a lot of weight, so the need for a bigger pump...and a check valve....boy, I would not want to change a broken one of those things :tango_face_devil:
 
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You and I are used to flowing sewage as opposed to pumped...to pump into a 4" line would probably require a larger pump...what we are seeing called a "grinder" is called a macerator on a boat...sounds like it is being pumped uphill, at least for part of its trip out to the street connection....so the uphill section of the line has to get filled all the way...and to fill up a 4" line would take a lot of the slurry being pumped...a lot of weight, so the need for a bigger pump...and a check valve....boy, I would not want to change a broken one of those things :tango_face_devil:
Years ago, I had a plumber install a backwater valve on my sewer line to prevent any backup in the future.
 

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The company I retired from had 3 directional boring machines.. The drilling head where all the electronics are located cost about $5000.00 alone. I lost one under some railroad tracks. Hit something hard and couldn't go forward or back. The railroad made us go deep to get under them and they certainly weren't going to give us permission to dig it up. It just about took an act of Congress to get permission to go under. We were installing conduit runs for Homeland Security so they handled all the permits with the railroad.

Petroleum pipelines are almost as hard to get permission to go under. The railroad and pipeline people are on site the whole time we are working around their right of way. We also had to stop drilling when a train passed by.
 

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When the head got stuck and we were trying to push and pull we had to put the bucket of the excavator on the drill tube to keep it from wanting to push up out of the ground. I figured I could chance having a big wrecker rig on site for about an hour to try and pull it out. If we were successful I would have been money ahead retrieving the head and drill tube lost. I was not successful unfortunately. Had to get a new head and try again the next day. We were successful that time.

Sorry Jere, not trying to hijack your thread. Just thought it would be an interesting side bar to the drilling machines.
 

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The company I retired from had 3 directional boring machines.. The drilling head where all the electronics are located cost about $5000.00 alone. I lost one under some railroad tracks. Hit something hard and couldn't go forward or back. The railroad made us go deep to get under them and they certainly weren't going to give us permission to dig it up. It just about took an act of Congress to get permission to go under. We were installing conduit runs for Homeland Security so they handled all the permits with the railroad.

Petroleum pipelines are almost as hard to get permission to go under. The railroad and pipeline people are on site the whole time we are working around their right of way. We also had to stop drilling when a train passed by.

I've seen one of those 4 inch metal drilling heads melted after it hit an two 13,000 volt feeders underground. Its a miracle the operator wasn't electrocuted. I know the machine was grounded. I asked the operator if he dug a test hole on the electric lines prior to drilling perpendicular to them and he said he did to the top but not at the bottom. It was a 5 foot tall electric duct bank encased in concrete. As a result, the bore hit the middle of the duct encasement damaging two feeders. That cost him $200,000.
 

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I've seen one of those 4 inch metal drilling heads melted after it hit an two 13,000 volt feeders underground. Its a miracle the operator wasn't electrocuted. I know the machine was grounded. I asked the operator if he dug a test hole on the electric lines prior to drilling perpendicular to them and he said he did to the top but not at the bottom. It was a 5 foot tall electric duct bank encased in concrete. As a result, the bore hit the middle of the duct encasement damaging two feeders. That cost him $200,000.
Thankfully we never did anything like that but my crew did hit two different high pressure natural gas lines that were miss marked. Closed down major highways till the got fixed. Chicago news helicopters flying over We made the 6 o'clock news.
 
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