[G-1]

In the last six years, we've had four failed dehumidifiers. The last bad one is on its way back to the seller and here we sit with a very humid basement and one of the failed units which ran one year OK and then struggled before failing just before the warranty was up at two years.

I'm quite certain that the unit is just low on R410a charge. Having an a/c company recharge it is not feasible. (Been down that road.) I'm considering getting a recharge kit like one of these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/R410-R410a-...918?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d3fcc24de
http://www.ebay.com/itm/410-R410-R4...753377?pt=Air_Conditioner&hash=item3a7fa6fd21

Of course, I also have to install one service port since there are none on it. I would use a piercing valve like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Sup...006?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43bdeb43ee

Anyone have experience with these kits? And am I correct in thinking the port would go on the low side? What few instructions I've seen are not clear on this.

I will look for a leak, but if I can't find or fix the leak, a yearly recharge would beat a yearly purchase of a new unit!

Thanks, Gerald

 

[Dragon]

Hi G-1,
I played the game of replacing the little dehumidifiers on a regular basis for years. No more. This year I went all in and purchased a whole house dehumidifier. It can wok as a stand alone unit or be connected to the whole house duct system in a number of different combinations depending on your setup.

I am going to instal mine to the duct work but haven't gotten around to it. (two little boys to chase) But it is running like crazy in our basement without being hooked up to the ducts. Plug in, turn dial, have something to catch water or tube to drain. It is pulling gallons of water out of the air. (it is rated to pull 11 gallons a day, depends on humidity and temp)

So while it is expensive it also comes with a 5 year warranty. Warranty is supposed to have professional instal but I found this distributor that will handle the warranty claims for the full 5 years (parts).

http://www.iaqsource.com/product.php?product=172543

Something to think about. I plan to post a write up on the full install in the next month or so.

Good luck.

 

[buffy12590]

Have you checked the dehumidifier to determine if shrader valves are on the lines? If not you won't be able to refill using those kits.

 

[G-1]

Dragon, this dehumidifier is part of a crawl space encapsulation system. The house has central a/c and has some dehumidification ability, but I need the one in the crawl space to take care of that area. It also takes care of the adjoining full basement...when it works.

We started out with a very large (90 pint) and very expensive ($1300) unit which was made in the USA and had a five year "warranty". It lasted three years before its first failure and cost us $350. to fix even with the warranty. (read the fine print). That fix lasted one year and we chose not to spend another $350. on it. I wish I had done more recharge research back then, but we sold that unit for parts since our local a/c guy saw no hope for it.

The one that we just shipped back to the seller was also a very expensive unit ($1000.) but it arrived with shipping damage and after dealing with the seller (Sylvane) and seeing what the (Chinese) unit really was, we elected to not have it replaced.

In between those two we had two less expensive units and I'd like see if one can be recharged.

Thanks for your input. Hope yours works out well for you.

Gerald

 

[G-1]

Have you checked the dehumidifier to determine if shrader valves are on the lines? If not you won't be able to refill using those kits.

You are right, there are no ports on it. These, like many other sealed refrigeration devices, are not expected to be worked on. That is why I need to add the port. I'm hoping that is all that is needed for recharge.

Thanks for the input.

Gerald

 

[Mark / Ohio]

...I will look for a leak, but if I can't find or fix the leak, a yearly recharge would beat a yearly purchase of a new unit! ....

Keep in mind it might not have sprung a leak until a few weeks ago thus a recharge might only last that long or less.

Does the compressor run at all? If it is running is there cooling or partial frosting of the evaporator coil?

 

[G-1]

Mark, I've been trying to do my homework on this and am gaining a new respect for HVAC folks. This stuff is complicated and getting more so with all the EPA considerations plus technology advances.

When this particular unit died in June, it was icing up. It is supposed to have a defrost capability, but it didn't seem to be working. Even if defrost had worked, there was no excuse for ice forming at summer temps. So, at that point I started looking for warranty help. The company (it is a Keystone Model KSTAD70A) said that it could not be fixed and said they would refund the purchase price (not done yet after 6 weeks).

Today, I took off the cover and ran it for awhile. Observed the following:
- evaporator coil became cool, but not cool enough to capture much water. And, it did not seem that ice would be forming anytime soon!
- compressor got very hot, but the amp draw stayed in the 3.5 range. The stated amperage of the unit is 6.9 amps.
- spraying soapy water on places I could get to revealed no leaks.

At this point, I'm thinking it is certainly low on R410A, but since it seems to be a lot worse than a month ago and it has not been used in that time, the leak rate may be too high to justify a recharge. Not only that, but from what I have learned, just adding R410A will not maintain the proper balance of its constituent parts; instead, it needs to be vacuumed out and a whole new charge added back. Not saying that just adding would not work, just that the experts would not recommend that method.
Also, since it seems to have a defrost defect, there is more than one thing wrong with it.

So, it does not look like it's possible for me to repair. Does that sound like a proper assessment of the situation?

Gerald

 

[Mark / Ohio]

Sounds like it could be a leak with low refrigerant or I suppose one of the valves in the compressor could be bad too. The defrost problem I think could be related to that. At least some models use a thermal cutout on one of the refrigerant lines to shutdown the compressor for defrost. So if that coil is not reaching (or probably more correct to say not dropping) to the cutoff level it would never go into defrost. Some of the more expensive units instead of shutting down the compressor have a reversing valve that activates. Works then like a home heatpump in the winter when it goes into defrost. Cold coil gets hot and the hot coil gets cold for a few minutes. If there is a leak unless you get lucky and find one of the refrigerant lines has been rubbing on the cabinet someplace, most leaks seem to be in or around the coils on them which from what I've heard can be a real pain if not impossible to repair without replacing the coil assembly. The lines are pretty thin gauge to work with.

Being a sealed system legally any certified tech working on it has to find and repair the leak. Then it is checked to see if it holds a vacuum for a certain amount of time (also drawing a vacuum removes any environmental contaminates from the system). After that all checks out then they refill with however many ounces of refrigerant is specified on the label. The new stuff is more finicky about having the exact amount of charge in it to get it to work proper compared to the old days too from what I'm told. The new compressors are not what grandma had either by a long shot when it comes to durability.

I'm not a certified tech myself but spend the bulk of my days around consumer appliance guys that are certified and have to listen to them do a lot of grumbling about what they are working on.

 

[2008 Impala]

I've had 2 of the things die the same way you'all are describing here. They lost their charge and there is NO difference between the 2 coils when I ran them to where I could check temps. Right now I am using the 2 smaller ones I had. A 1999 Whirlpool 40 pint and get this a 1974 GE 25 pint that still works perfectly. Reason I bought a bigger 65 pint was to cut down a little on electricity use. I guess we see how that worked out.

 

[Kbeitz]

Guess I'm just lucky...
I buy my units at yard sale for $25.00 or less.
I have two units in my basement that I bought around 5 years ago sitting on shelves on the wall above the floor drains. I run a copper line down to the drain and forget about them. About every 4 weeks I look to see if water is still dripping from the line.
People sell them cheap when they brake the catch pan and I don't need that part.

 

[tractorsguy]

You might find it cheaper to buy a newer unit these days. They're more energy efficient, and $209. Sometimes on sale $189.

If you're wondering what size dehumidifier per room type (basement, living room, bedrooms, etc) or square footage, use a Dehumidifier Size Calculator to get dehumidification capacity (in pints).

 

[Tencubed]

I no longer work in the trade since I'm retired but will weigh in on this.

The new refrigerants and related oils are much more difficult to manage than the old R-12 I started on. These new systems are also built of much lighter material to increase the heat transfer and up the efficiency. Most of them are junk as they come off the assembly line.

Trying to repair leaks in the very thin aluminum coils used these days is really an impossible task. There are kits that are supposed to seal up minor leaks but I've never seen one that would hold for more than a short period of time.

Those that mentioned the procedure for repairing a refrigeration system involving finding the leak, repairing the leak, vacuuming the system and adding a measured charge are basically correct. Depending on the system and how contaminated it is it may also be necessary to replace the metering device and add or change the filter or filters.

Most folks don't realize that an air conditioner will remove as much water as a dehumidifier of like size. Trick is to run the fan on the low speed setting so any condensate that forms on the evaporator coil is allowed to drain away and is not wiped off the coil by the high air speed of higher fan settings.

In my reloading room I just use an window shaker AC unit that is set up to drain the waste condensate into the floor drain. Summer time I stick the same unit in the window to keep the area cool. Still use the low fan speed.

I've been a certified tech since the certifications were first required and had been working with systems way before that.

The new systems and refrigerants simply will not hold up and do the job the old equipment did.

Of course this is all just my opinion based on a tad bit of experience. YMMV.

Mike

 

[CADplans]

Crawl space moisture,,, Hmmmmmmmm

My daughter had that issue,,,

I covered the dirt with 6 mil black plastic,, the moisture issue went away,,,

Small dehumidifiers use capillary tube rather than a valve,,, more difficult to get a cap tube recharged correctly.

My other daughter has some moisture in the basement,, the portable dehumidifier has not worked well for the last few months,,, because it is too cold in the basement,, the dehumidifier either does not come on,, or it just freezes up,,,,

 

[G-1]

Crawl space moisture,,, Hmmmmmmmm

My daughter had that issue,,,

I covered the dirt with 6 mil black plastic,, the moisture issue went away,,,

Small dehumidifiers use capillary tube rather than a valve,,, more difficult to get a cap tube recharged correctly.

My other daughter has some moisture in the basement,, the portable dehumidifier has not worked well for the last few months,,, because it is too cold in the basement,, the dehumidifier either does not come on,, or it just freezes up,,,,

Since determining that repair of my unit was not an option, I purchased a new, expensive unit (Santa Fe Compact2-$1000+) in Aug. of 2013. That unit also failed in two years and the company sent a free replacement which has been running OK since last summer, but I know it could die any minute!

The symptoms of last years failure were that it would ice up when the temps were around 50F and never take out much water even when not iced.

I don't understand why these units are so unreliable. After all, the basic components are not that much different from a refrigerator and they often last over 20 years.

The crawl space encapsulation system (plastic over the dirt; Clean Space system) really corrected a very bad moisture problem, but a dehumidifier is still necessary to keep the space healthy.

Gerald

 

[APinNY]

I had a high humidity problem in the crawlspace at our camp, which is 640 square feet and only about 2-3 feet in height. Over the years the beams rotted out and were eaten by carpenter ants, which love humidity. Years ago I laid plastic on the dirt floor. That helped, but not much, and even that was rotting. Last year I had all the rotten beams replaced, sealed the vents and entrance, Dri-Locked the block foundation, replaced all the plastic on the floor and bought an April Aire model 1830 dehumidifier. We had received an estimate of $5000 to encapsulate the space, including another brand of dehumidifier, but that was too expensive. Also, if a pipe were to break when we weren't there, the drains they were going to install wouldn't have been able to stop the water from forming a swimming pool in there.

In the warm months, the humidity is now at 55%, down from 84%. When the temperature goes below 40°, the machine won't run, to prevent freezing.

Last summer and fall we had no ants or anything else living in there, so the machine has been doing it's job. The electric bill goes up around $25/month when it is running, but that's well worth it. It has a five year warranty that I hope I won't need to use. Time will tell.

 

[Jere39]

All I can say is good luck guys. I tried venting my basement for two years, and failed to resolve my moisture problem. So, about 20 years ago I went to my JD dealer, who at the time also was an appliance dealer. I told him the dimensions of my basement, he pointed me at a very basic unit typical of those days. I carried it into my basement, set it under the stairs so it wouldn't be in the way, added a 3' section of hose to get it to drain directly over a center floor drain in my basement, turned it on, set it to about 50%, and haven't done another thing to it since. I doesn't run in the winter, because the humidity doesn't get that high. Runs pretty much every day in the summer. I can't hear it in the living area of my home, but when my wife sends me to the basement to get some fresh frozen food into or out of the freezer, I see it running, note the small stream of condensate, and read the extra humidity meter I added some time along the way. I might be a very lucky guy, or maybe 20 year old dehumidifiers are just more durable. I suppose this one will eventually crap out, then I might be into the 2 year cycle of "modern" appliances.