[themidniteryder]

Last week I had a log splitter in here that would not bark. Owner said it ran good, then over time got hard to start, then started running poorly, now it wont start. It had a Kohler KT17 in it. Inline spark tester showed good spark and coil. Pulled the plugs, they looked good. Checked the compression, 110 on each cylinder. :banghead3 Couldn't get so much as a woof priming with straight gas down the throat or using starting fluid. :banghead3 What the heck. Checked timing, seemed in order. Nothing seemed to be out of order. :banghead3 It had the correct RBL15Y plugs in it but just to kill time I put in a set of Autolite 458's in it. IT RAN. :fing32: Ok, put a new set of factory correct RBL15Y's in it. Now it don't run no more. :crybaby: Back to the Autolites' and all is good. The only VISUAL difference between the Champions and the Autolites, the Autolites has a shorter outside (plug wire side) insulator. It now runs great, but any guesses on what the heck???? I doesn't really matter for this one, but it may help trouble shoot the next one....

 

[Tencubed]

I don't have my plug book handy but are the Autolites a resistor plug like the Champs?

Could make a difference I suppose.

Mike

 

[themidniteryder]

hmmmm "should'nt" make a difference but I will look into that. As far as I know the main reason for a resistor plug is to eliminate the tick tick tick out of the AM radio when used in a car.

 

[Tencubed]

I wonder if a borderline ignition would have a problem with the additional resistance of the resistor type plug. I've never seen this happen or even heard of it for that matter. Sure would like to hear any updates on this. Really strange.

Mike

 

[ranchkingron]

That is strange, but I do know from experience that using the standard NGK's in my motorcycle and switching Autolite made all the difference in the world why?

I cant say but I did notice that with Autolite plugs they came out looking better (nice and tan) than the NGK's which looked a sooty like the engine was running very rich.

P.S. Isn't the 458 plug a resistor type, would the different style of center electrode be the reason the Autolite works and the Champion doesn't ?

I did see that Autolite fires much brighter and bluer than other plugs do.

 

[gray wolf]

I,ve seen a lot of plugs lately.shorting out though the porcilin.the way I found out was when holding the plug againt the head and it shocks ya.not supposed to .means its shorting .

 

[junebug1701]

Ok, put a new set of factory correct RBL15Y's in it. Now it don't run no more. :crybaby: Back to the Autolites' and all is good. The only VISUAL difference between the Champions and the Autolites, the Autolites has a shorter outside (plug wire side) insulator. It now runs great, but any guesses on what the heck???? I doesn't really matter for this one, but it may help trouble shoot the next one....

Maybe it has to do with the way the spark plug boot contacts the base of the plug? Yes, the carbon black in the rubber can conduct and ground out the spark. Look at Misha's pictures and read how this happened to him:

http://www.mytractorforum.com/showpost.php?p=1397001&postcount=22

 

[LLigetfa]

Maybe it has to do with the way the spark plug boot contacts the base of the plug? Yes, the carbon black in the rubber can conduct and ground out the spark.

That would be palusible if the Autolite was longer but it is shorter than the Champion.

I've never been very happy with Champion plugs. I've put in brand new Champions and had them run worse than the old plug. I've seen Champions die, never to work again from just one flooding.

I go out of my way to find (order of preference depends on the particular engine) AC or Bosch or even the NGK (no good kind). I don't recall ever trying an Autolite.

 

[Misha]

458 Autolight is RJ19LM analog, right? 15 vs 19 - one is hotter, the other is colder. This is likely what makes a difference in this case. Try RJ19LM, and if it works like Autolight - you have your answer.

 

[themidniteryder]

458 Autolight is RJ19LM analog, right? 15 vs 19 - one is hotter, the other is colder. This is likely what makes a difference in this case. Try RJ19LM, and if it works like Autolight - you have your answer.

That very well could be the difference. I just can figure why degraded then non running with old correct plugs, still no running with new factory correct plugs, the runs great with non correct plugs. There has got to be a deeper root cause. Something funky with the coil? Carbon buildup changing the swirl pattern in the combustion chamber leaving the need for a different heat range plug? I missed the Buggs Bunny-Daffy Duck Hour that morning and had bad Ju-Ju? I am not losing a lot of sleep over this, but it just kinda nags at me wondering if there is a failure lurking in this engines future that I might have missed the signs of.

 

[Misha]

That very well could be the difference. I just can figure why degraded then non running with old correct plugs, still no running with new factory correct plugs, the runs great with non correct plugs. There has got to be a deeper root cause. Something funky with the coil? Carbon buildup changing the swirl pattern in the combustion chamber leaving the need for a different heat range plug? I missed the Buggs Bunny-Daffy Duck Hour that morning and had bad Ju-Ju? I am not losing a lot of sleep over this, but it just kinda nags at me wondering if there is a failure lurking in this engines future that I might have missed the signs of.

Well, since hotter/colder indicates basically only self-cleaning of a plug at hotter or colder temps in the chamber, I would venture to guess that the reason is somehow related either to the temperature change or contamination amount, or both. In other words - carbon buildup, lean/rich mixture, and oil leaks are three things to check and fix, where needed. On a car engine I would check the ignition timing, too - but here you guys seem to have fixed timing all over the place, one less concern LOL.

 

[Mighty Dodge]

I'd always heard of plugs not firing under compression. Had never experienced it until a few years ago. Since then I've seen it half a dozen times or so. Don't know why. Maybe they've changed the materials or the way plugs are manufactured.

M.D.

 

[Tractor-Holic]

In my experience with plugs,Champions seem to foul easier and refuse to work once they do--I have seen many develop pinholes in the center electrode and the spark jumps there,instead of the gap,and they wont fire an engine when under compression when they get like that...flood one once by over-choking it and you'll never get it to fire up an engine again,despite it having a nice healthy blue spark at the gap,it "blows out" under compression..thats why those old time spark plug cleaners had a pressurized chamber you could watch the plug sparking thru a mica window,and often youd see the spark dissapear when you applied the air pressure..

Plugs I wont buy are any "miracle" plugs with forked or multiple ground electrodes,etc,that cost 5+ bucks each...and Bosch Platinum spark plugs,they suck--I have seen several instances with them when an engine is tuned up with them,and they skip or run worse with the new plugs than the old ones did!..they are "dead" right out of the box...this is especially evident in older GM V8's..I'm not a big fan of NGK's either (No Good Crap),I developed a hatred for them back when I was a teen with a C110 Honda,no other plugs would make that 50 cc engine run but an NGK,and you'd get about 4 hours out of each one,then ,like they had a timer in them,they would expire ,and you weren't getting that engine to run again till you blew another 10 bucks on another NGK--they were 10mm plugs and few parts stores carried them...I had good luck with OLD Bosch plugs in my air cooled VW's though...I liked using Autolites in my Chevy's, # 26 or #145's ran the best and rarely fouled or gave grief--same with the ols AC "fire ring" spark plugs,seems you could flood them bad and after you let them dry out,after the engine started they would self clean..not so with a Champion,once fouled the engine wouldn't even pop with starting fluid..

Many engines on mowers I got from the dump started right up after I ditched the Champion plug and put in an Autolite,and fresh gas...the newer plugs without any ribs on the insulators seem to allow "flashover" from the boot to ground when damp too...Idont like them either...only "miracle" plug I ever bought that worked and lived up to its claim of "fires in oil" was an "Aldor" brand one,those simply wont foul!..but they cost 5+ bucks each and though they will let you run a engine that burns oil bad,they are probably a higher heat range,which could lead to engine damage in some cases..

Bottom line is in a one cylinder engine,you have just ONE spark plug,and its got to be a good one,if you expect it to run!...

 

[H-D]

My Ducati 900 SS Desmo wouldn't make 300 miles before breaking down under hard acceleration with Champions (OEM). Autolites never broke down, but were changed at 1,500 miles as PM. The only plugs which I've found to be defective out of the box were Champions. I wrote it off as marketing a sub-standard product with a monster advertising budget, kinda like Fram.

 

[Tencubed]

I'm wondering if this skunk gas we're forced to buy now is causing a need for different heat ranges on plugs. I've noticed on some equipment we are not getting the service longevity from tune ups that we used to get.

Could this problem with this log splitter be fuel related? Just the quality of the stuff, not the carburetor.

Mike

 

[LLigetfa]

Heat range will not affect a cold start on a new plug. Heat range will affect how well an engine runs (preignition ping/knock) and how much a plug will foul.

 

[Onan18]

I see a lot of you guys are having problems with Champions and, while I believe you, I have a completely opposite experience. Champion has been the best plug I have ever used and I have never had any fouling issues with them, even after serious flooding. As a matter of fact Champion H10C is the only plug that my Onan will not eat. My grandfather told me when I inherited the mechanic responsibility "that engine will only run champions, anything else will burn up in a month." Well I was like "a plug is a plug" and bought a set of Autolite's. One month later like clockwork they burned up. I put in a pair of H10C and three years later they are still just purring along. Never had any luck with NGK either, had another Onan with a new set of NGK that would not run for crap. Threw in a set of H10C and away it went.

 

[themidniteryder]

I have had a couple Dodge muscle cars in the past, on Dad has had his share of Dodge trucks and cars. Put anything but a Champion in theme and you defiantly had a performance issue/loss of gas mileage/less tire smoke. As far as I am concerned AC goes in a Chevy, Motorcraft/Autolite in a Ford, and Champions in a Dodge. I haven't discovered the right click on the OPE engines yet.