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Discussion Starter #1
I acquired a 30" Cub hydraulic tiller in perfect NOS condition. It has never even been in the dirt. My question is does anyone know the size (volume or flow rating) of the pump that is supposed to run this? I plan on running a completely separate hydraulic system for this, using a HF 6.5HP engine mounted on the tiller. But I need to know how big a hydraulic pump to purchase.

Thanks for you help,
Bill
 

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That seems the hard way to do it. I would go higher than 6.5HP, like 15. Unless your using the hydraulic power unit that you build for other things this will be cost prohibitive. My hydraulic tiller on my CASE 446 takes full flow and pressure. CASE have a 0.61 cu in pump.

Please take pictures. If you can find name tag on tiller’s hyd motor, include that.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hydronerd, thanks for input, it definately gives me someplace to start. I used to have a 446 with an Onan engine, nice tractor but junk decks.

Bill
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Here is some pics of the tiller and Char-Lynn motor, it seems the model number has been superseded. If someone has access to current part numbers - displacement and flow would help me out. Motor number is 101-2716-009.

Bill
 

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I see a control valve, a filter, and a reservoir. Only reason for reservoir is if it already has on board pump. Then it would need only a pto drive. Do you have more pictures of front and sides.

Maybe it like the JD hydraulic tillers.

BTW, re: motor. 101 means H series g-rotor. The next number is usually “1”, “2” means it’s kinda funky. OEM special perhaps. I can in look into it on Monday. Last three digits is options like paint colour.
 

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No, there is no on-board pump. The system from Cub Cadet came with a pump that mounted under the tractor on the deck arms and connected to the pto. I'm mounting an engine with a hydraulic pump on the tiller when I figure out what the proper size for the pump is.

Bill
 

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Hello –

You are correct, the Eaton (Char-Lynn) 101-2716-009 is a unique Cub Cadet specification no longer produced – they built and shipped the last ones about 9-10 years ago. You can spec out almost the same motor on line, the difference being the length of the output shaft, 2” vs. 2.5” for the Cub spec motor. I have attached a Char-Lynn H-Series manual, which gives you displacement info, with more on line if you search Char-Lynn H-Series. If something is not right with yours, seal kits and other parts are readily available. I have the same motor apart right now cleaning debris out of it, from my 42” (3000 series) version of your tiller, also never used. BTW, the 009 denotes the motor series.

However, it sounds like you are missing the pump and are looking for specs to find a hydraulic pump to drive the motor. Is that correct? If so, you can get a brand new 3000 series pump exactly matched to the hydraulic motor for $250 on line. I am not sure what tractor you are putting the tiller on, but with 90-degree fittings, it could be used in the vertical orientation, if your tractor has a vertical shaft engine. That would be much cheaper and way easier than adding another whole engine.

On mine, the pump supply fitting was left uncapped and ruined, and the tank was loaded with rust. I got my money back, purchased a new tiller body and kept the parts to hang on the new tank. As it looks like yours might have been uncapped as well, I suggest checking out the inside – hydraulic pumps don’t like a steady diet of rust. They are very difficult to clean out, but if that is what you have going on, you could move the filter to the supply side of the tank. You would have to change filters more often, at least until the worst of the rust is sucked out. After reading what TUDOR had to say about filter placement, I am moving my filter to the supply side when I put it back together.

More details please, especially what tractor you have. Also, where in Wisconsin are you? Good Luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for the info pfreiburger, actually I have some engines to try. A new 6.5HP Predator and also a 15HP Kawasaki liquid cooled, so no cost. I built a front mounted hydraulic system on my IH 444 for the front end loader. Used a hydraulic pump from Surplus Center, which can be bought for $116. I'm from the Bear Creek area in Wisconsin, which is 35 miles straight west of Green Bay.


Bill
 

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Pfreiburger, I actually have that manual downloaded from Eaton's website. My question is which part number in the manual is the close brother of the hydraulic motor we have on the tillers? Or since you have a pump unit for your 3000 series, can you please check the model number for me? I am building this so my brother and I can share it on our multiple 3000 series Cubs. I cut grass with a 3205, but also have a 3185 that has become little helper around the yard. I have a broken back and bad knees so I'll take whatever help I can get. I added a lower front bumper so I can push things into place and a 3' boom and winch to the rear along with a mount system for my debris rake and estate rake. The 3000 series have a unique frame that makes building the mount system very easy and comes completely off with 2 bolts. I plan on building the mount system for the tiller with whatever extra length will be needed for the engine and pump then offsetting it to the left just beyond the rear wheel. It will be lifted with my winch.

Bill
 

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Howdy - Thanks for the pics, I really like the boom you made. Both pumps are the same part number, as is most of the bolt on stuff between the 30" and 42" tillers.

Sorry to hear about your health struggles. Kudos to you for still getting so much done, it's not easy when you hurt. Cheers!
 

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No, there is no on-board pump. The system from Cub Cadet came with a pump that mounted under the tractor on the deck arms and connected to the pto. I'm mounting an engine with a hydraulic pump on the tiller when I figure out what the proper size for the pump is.

Bill
So You Bought it without the PTO Pump is what Your saying Because I had one of these tillers for 16 years and it came with a Pump attached to the tiller via Hoses That In turn was run By the Tractors PTO. Pump is circled In red (y)
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You are correct, but your picture is of the mule drive system for a 2000 series Cub. I am building this to run on multiple 3000 series tractors. So the tractors will merely be the tow vehicles for the tiller. The hydraulic pump that is part of the 3000 series tiller is HUGE - 1.77 cu in(that's 28GPM at max RPM) but the Cub engineers knew they were dealing with a lower RPM with the 3000 series PTO's. I'm not sure how the 2000 series survived if used a lot, because hydraulic pumps generally don't like side loads, if running with a belt they should be mounted to the end of a double bearing jackshaft.

Bill
 

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You are correct, but your picture is of the mule drive system for a 2000 series Cub. I am building this to run on multiple 3000 series tractors. So the tractors will merely be the tow vehicles for the tiller. The hydraulic pump that is part of the 3000 series tiller is HUGE - 1.77 cu in(that's 28GPM at max RPM) but the Cub engineers knew they were dealing with a lower RPM with the 3000 series PTO's. I'm not sure how the 2000 series survived if used a lot, because hydraulic pumps generally don't like side loads, if running with a belt they should be mounted to the end of a double bearing jackshaft.

Bill
Well we Never Had a Problem with the 30inch Hydraulic driven tiller on our 2206 and it got used On a acre flower Garden every year and to tilled Paths at least once a week I still have a Deere 42inch Hydraulic driven Tiller for My X748 and the 42inch Hydraulic driven Tiller for the Deere X500 series uses a similar pump set up to the 30inch Hydraulic driven Tiller MTD Made for the 2000/2500 series and I have never seen of a Issue with the Deere 42inch On the 325 thu GX355 or the X500 series I had Looked at Buying the MTD/Cub 42inch Hydraulic tiller to use on My 1999 White GT2055 Had a friend at the White/Cub dealer at the time who could Make a bracket to Mount the Pump Braces to the white's Mid Mount system as they had done it for 4 customers already But a JD 425 with a Loader & tiller fell Into my Lap for cheap and decided Not to do That .

Now how is You tiller going to Be Mounted to the Tractor or our you Just going to Make it a simple 1 pin tow Behind ?
(y)
 

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I plan on using the mounts on the tiller in some fashion, but off-set to just outside the left rear tire. I'm leaning towards making the engine and hydraulic pump a separate unit with quick connect lines so it can be used as hydraulic power for other things. Then the tiller would mount behind that. This will be limited to straight line tilling or very gentle curves, but I can live with that.

I did tach the PTO on the 3185, at full throttle the PTO is going 2000 RPM.

Bill
 

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I think 2.2 cu-in is pretty small for a tiller. It is the smallest of the H series. It is limited to 10 gpm; which is approximately 1000 rpm; which is crazy fast for tilling. I suggest checking displacement by measuring overall length. See attached. Oh just notice I should have indicated "Y" dimension.



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Howdy - Regarding the pump speed, on the 2500's, it's roughly the same (or greater) reduction as on the 3000 series, note the large diameter pulley on the pump. I also would not worry about the set up, I suspect that the consideration of side loads were accounted for. I am sure Eaton would not have supplied a pump that they were going to have to replace a lot of under warranty. That set up was also used on other MTD brands for years as well as Cub Cadet, very successfully as far as I know.

Regarding the hydraulic motors, the Cub spec motor has a rotor housing 1.0" wide (I know, measured mine), so it is plenty powerful. Finally getting back to putting mine together, should have something to see shortly.
 

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the Cub spec motor has a rotor housing 1.0" wide (I know, measured mine)
Using the dimension info I already posted; 1" gerotor width would be 11 cu-in, which is more like I would expect.
So 2000 rpm at the pump drive times the displacement ratio (pump:motor), equals 300rpm which seems reasonable.
 
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