My Tractor Forum banner
1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a 3225 that I am having a problem with it. It starts fine and then dies within about 5 seconds. I have changed the fuel filter, so that is not the problem.
Anyone have suggestions as to what might be causing this??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,625 Posts
It could be a few things:

- A bad fuel pump. Is the carb getting a continuous fuel supply? Are the fuel lines clear?
- Is the gas tank creating a vacuum? After operating the engine (even for the limited time) open that gas tank and listen for air movement.
- A broken choke cable. Does the choke plate move with the lever?
- A mistimed engine. Not likely if no recent mods or maintenance has been conducted
- Failed (or failing) ignition module.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,272 Posts
To add to the above (Gary's list is quite thorough):

If it only runs for 5 seconds, that's a very small amount of fuel reaching the engine. The carburetor's float may be stuck, not allowing enough fuel to stay in the bowl to be drawn into the intake. Does moving the choke change how it runs, or help it run longer? Also, even if your fuel lines are clear, they may have become brittle over time and be allowing the fuel pump to draw in air instead of fuel, thus starving the engine. If you could give us a more detailed explanation of the symptoms you're experiencing, we will be better informed and can more accurately propose solutions for you. It's likely to be a fuel issue, but not certainly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Ok, more info. I have just had the tank off and replaced the grommets on the fuel pickup and the fuel sensor. Replaced the fuel line and filter while I was that deep. Also replaced o-rings on the hyd valve.
When I got it all back together is when this problem started. I considered the low oil sensor but it is not low on oil. Seems to have plenty of fuel but I will check to see about tank vacuum.
The tractor starts fine with the use of the choke. Starts like it should but only runs a few seconds.

Problem #2
Gary, you mentioned ignition module. I have had a problem when I try to start. When I turn the key it clicks like a dead battery, it may click several times before it hits but when it does hit it starts like it should. If I put a charger on it and have a fully charged battery, it hits first time, every time. The battery (group 51) was installed new last summer. Could this be the module?

Really bumfuzzled.
Thanks for the ideas. I REALLY APPRECIATE IT
 

·
1025R FILB Owner
Joined
·
299 Posts
Well for what it's worth, I'll try my best to relay what I know 2nd hand on my 3225. I say this because the 3225 I have was handed down when dad upgraded. As he told me, the tractor would start, run, and die... sometimes backfiring. A guy he works with loves cubs and has rebuilt motors in our other cubs in the past. One weekend he came by to look at the 3225 because it wouldn't run. After inspecting the carb to make sure the float was working right and that the jets weren't clogged, the carb was determined to be ok. The fuel filter was also replaced.

After a few weeks of this, dad called Kohler. They said it sounds like either a worn key on the crank for the flywheel or bad ignition module. Well, the cub guy dad knew came by for another go around on the tractor after hearing this. Supposedly the key and keyway was ok. Dad just said screw it and had a local dealer pick up the tractor. They had it for a few weeks since dad already had the new tractor and didn't need it back. They eventually determined it was the ignition module and replaced it. The dealer said they went through the same trouble shooting process because sometimes it would just backfire, sometimes just crank over, and other times fire up, run then quite.

I got the tractor this past September... with 1/4 of an acre, I hardly need one. Anyway, it ran great for like the 3 times I used it during the fall, but the last time I used it in December, it wouldn't run with less than half throttle. The fuel line was cracked close to the suction side of the fuel filter. I had to replaced all fuel line from tank to carb and another new filter. It now runs much better.

Anyway, I do apologize for the info being relayed a few times. But since you have replaced the fuel lines and grommets, and if the key for the flywheel is ok, and the carb is ok, and the choke is working properly, then its most likely the module. They aren't cheap like a fuel filter, so I understand not wanting to change it unless it is bad.

I should also mention dad tried fresh fuel and new spark plugs. That was one of the first things. But yeah, that's all the info I can pass along.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,272 Posts
When I got it all back together is when this problem started

The tractor starts fine with the use of the choke. Starts like it should but only runs a few seconds.

When I turn the key it clicks like a dead battery, it may click several times before it hits but when it does hit it starts like it should. If I put a charger on it and have a fully charged battery, it hits first time, every time. The battery (group 51) was installed new last summer. Could this be the module?

Really bumfuzzled.
Thanks for the ideas. I REALLY APPRECIATE IT
Usually, when a problem arises immediately after you finish a repair, checking and double checking your work uncovers the root cause quickly. That would be the first thing I'd do for sure.

You say it starts fine but dies after 5 seconds, and that choke operates properly. Have you tried pulling the choke back out when it's about to die? This will help narrow down whether or not it is a fuel issue.

The clicking noise you're hearing could be several things, but the module is not one of them. (Not saying the module isn't causing your poor running condition, though.) Either you've got poor connections at the battery (which jumper cables help to correct), or your battery is weak. The clicking noise you're hearing is most likely the starter solenoid attempting to engage the starter, but having insufficient voltage to do so. Your fuel shut-off solenoid will also make a faint clicking noise when you turn the key to the 'run' position. This is normal. To make your life easier, I'd double check your battery's voltage and ability to handle a load, as well as your electrical connections. That way you can focus on the main problem and not be distracted by the electronics.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
542 Posts
Your fuel shut-off solenoid will also make a faint clicking noise when you turn the key to the 'run' position.
I've had two engines which had problems with the fuel shut off solenoid not opening properly. In both cases, the solenoid would "crack open" and there would be enough fuel for a few seconds worth of running and then it would die.

In one case, the whole carb was fairly well varnished over. The other one seemed to be related to a jammed up o-ring. It might be worth looking into the proper function of this valve...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,625 Posts
Information is now flowing all over the place. I like that...

Yes, as suggested, check the function of the choke and the fuel shut-off. If you are sure that the battery is healthy (both in voltage and capacity) you may have a starter (solenoid) that is failing. This is totally unrelated too the run-n-die problem.

Unfortunately your tractor has had some recent work which does make cyber diagnostics a little bit difficult. You need to isolate the problem. Here's a suggestion:

Fabricate a simple gravity-fed fuel system. A small bottle with a piece of fuel line that is connected directly to the carb - no filter. If the tractor starts and runs with this make-shift fuel system you have isolated the problem to the fuel delivery system (tank, lines, filter and pump). From there you can isolate what you can to get to the actual problem.

If the tractor will not continuously run with the make-shift fuel system you can try to keep the tractor running with a squirt or two of starting fluid after the tractor is running and begins to die. If it will run with starting fluid, I think the fuel shut-off is a good place to attack.

If however the tractor will not continue running with sprayed assistance, you probably have an ignition problem. You may have a defective module. You may have a kill switch (safety switch) that is faulty and only grounds out when the tractor begins to vibrate. Electrical demons can be hard to exercise, but with diligence you should be able to isolate the issue. A multi-meter will be crucial in this process.

Let us know what you learn.

Oh, btw - you can download the Service Manual for the engine from the Kohler website. This is a very well written service manual, appropriate for the pro and home-wrencher alike.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
390 Posts
I have the click problem, if I use contact cleaner on the key switch it will go away for about a month. The previous owner added a push button switch which never fails. On the running issue the seat switch may be a little lose now.
 

·
10K and Climbin!
Joined
·
12,783 Posts
I have the click problem, if I use contact cleaner on the key switch it will go away for about a month. The previous owner added a push button switch which never fails. On the running issue the seat switch may be a little lose now.
A sticky starter bendix can also cause headaches.. You hear a click when the key is turned to start but no engine movement..

Just a thought from a victim..:dunno:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks everyone for the ideas.
Today I did not have much time to check things out, but I did check the tank for vacuum and that seemed to be fine.
I will recheck my work.
The seat switch.... If it is loose would it allow the tractor to even start???

Re the choke.... I have tried using the choke to keep it from dying, but doesn't help. It dies as if I had turned off the key. No spit or sputter, just dies. It does act like a kill switch. Are there any other kill switches besides seat and low oil, and where is the low oil sensor?
Fuel line is not pinched or kinked. Fuel flow seems to be fine.
I will try the alternative fuel supply. Then check the fuel shut off.

Now the battery...I bought this tractor spring of '10. in spring of '11 I started having this starting problem. First I replaced the battery cables. Then I thought the battery was old and getting weak, so I replaced it and there was no change. I have found since then if I keep the battery in tip top shape, it starts just fine. I don't think it is charging as it should because after running for a while and shut it down and try to restart.....its a crapshoot whether it will start right back up or I have to go through the click click click... but it does finally hit and cranks strong.
Again thanks for all the help. I will check these things and report back
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
22,112 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Brad, thanks for the schematic. I definitely will do this.

I found my starting and dying problem. The wire to the seat switch was grounding out. I didn't think that it would start at all with a switch malfunctioning. Learn something new every day.

Thanks to all for your ideas. I am happy, happy again. Can use my tractor, which I depend on almost daily.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,625 Posts
I found my starting and dying problem. The wire to the seat switch was grounding out. I didn't think that it would start at all with a switch malfunctioning. Learn something new every day.
I think every tractor owner battles with a safety switch at least once in their lifetime.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
542 Posts
Great detective work!

I agree with Gary - and want to point out that keeping the seat slide mechanism lubricated is the first step to being able to get to it!!
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top