[paclockman]

Hello all,

I have a Craftsman model 917.273061 that doesn't start or should I say doesn't start as it should. I can "jump" the solenoid and it will start right up.

It has a Kohler 20hp twin and has served me well minus a few hiccups along the way. Earlier this year I was using it with no problems...I shut it off and it wouldn't start the next time I tried. Fast forward several months and now having time to work on it I've replaced battery, replaced the solenoid with a new one, and I replaced the clutch/brake pedal switch with a new one. The seat switch was replaced last year. The relay "clicks" when you turn the key. Like I said, when you do get it started by jumping the solenoid, it runs fine.

Any ideas? Did I miss something? Is the new solenoid bad?

Thanks for any input/ideas!

 

[Oldtgeezer]

1. I’m assuming here ? that you are jumping to the starter connection side of the solenoid ? ? ? If it “clicks” rapidly (chatters), make sure you have a good ground on the solenoid. Then, if you know how to use a voltmeter, check the voltage first on the solenoid ignition connection while trying to start. Probably good (battery voltage), but tells that if you’ve got good continuity, or not from battery to the solenoid’s coil.
2. If not, then somewhere between the battery and solenoid coil you have a lousy connection/switch or could even have a stranded wire that only has 2 or 3 of those teeny tiny wire strands (now a high resistance) that haven’t parted yet and are giving you an IR drop (ie. a voltage drop). This condition (the 2 or 3 part) is what has caused me to be almost bald from violent hair pulling ?.
3. If the solenoid just goes click and doesn’t chatter, keep the start switch engaged, is the battery connection voltage 12vdc, no, find bad connection/wire. Solenoid battery connection 12vdc yes, move your meter over to the starter connection wire. Meter reads 12vdc, the starter should be turning the engine over. If not, you were probably jumping the solenoid straight to the starter, which I didn’t even think of until now, which would only leave the starter wire.
4. Trouble shooting is such fun, hope you finish your problem resolution with more hair left than I have ?.

 

[paclockman]

Thanks oldtgeezer,

That at least gives me something to look for.

I was jumping the two main terminals on top of the solenoid (just shorting between them with a screw driver)...it would spark a bit bit and if the key was in the run position it would start right up.

I'll try and get to it tomorrow with the volt meter.

Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[Caustic]

I think you have your power terminals backwards.

 

[38racing]

I think you have your power terminals backwards.

What exactly do you mean by that?

 

[38racing]

A quick test is to remove the small lead from the starter solenoid. Make sure solenoid is grounded by mounting or separate lead. Apply a jumper wire from the battery positive to that small terminal. If it cranks then solenoid is good. If not . check fuse. Could be a safety switch. Could be keyswitch. 12v at the small wire of the solenoid is a good sign but I've had that but still no crank because the connection at the keyswitch would not pass enough current to activate the solenoid. Any marginal switch in the cranking circuit could cause that too.

 

[Caustic]

What exactly do you mean by that?

The power from the battery to your solenoid and the power from your solenoid to the starter.

 

[38racing]

The power from the battery to your solenoid and the power from your solenoid to the starter.

Actually it doesn't matter which terminals OP uses on the solenoid. It's just serving as a switch. However the chassis +ve feed commonly comes from the solenoid post containing the battery +ve cable. If he put that chassis feed wire on the terminal with the starter cable then yes he'll not get it to start. But if he did that the chassis feed would end when he stopped the jumper and it would not continue to run if he has an AntiBackfireSolenoid on the carb because there would be no power to it except during the jump.

 

[Caustic]

I just replaced one in my massey and it turned out to be directional. That was new to me as well.

 

[Brad]

When you turn the key, do you get a single "click" from the solenoid? Check all your wire/cable connections at the battery and where the ground wire goes to the frame. Make sure the cables look good as well. May be such a thing as a dirty safety causing the issue, reducing voltage to the solenoid. Watch the video link in my signature for some insight to this problem.

 

[groomerz]

Get wiring diagram and a test light. Start at s terminal on ignition switch and turn key test light should light indicating power Then follow the path from there to next connection or switch to the solenoid coil looking for power when key is turned to start


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[groomerz]

I prefer a test light over a voltmeter because it simulates a load.


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[paclockman]

Thanks to everyone for all of the ideas. I plan to work on it tomorrow and I'll post what I find.


Brad - when I turn the key I don't get a click from the solenoid but I do get a click from the relay.

 

[38racing]

Thanks to everyone for all of the ideas. I plan to work on it tomorrow and I'll post what I find.


Brad - when I turn the key I don't get a click from the solenoid but I do get a click from the relay.

What relay? The solenoid is actually a relay too.

 

[paclockman]

On the schematic it's listed as "operator presence relay #1". When you turn the key you can hear it click, you can also feel it click. There is no clicking from the solenoid.

 

[Caustic]

Still stand by my opinion as I has the same issue when I replaced the solenoid. Not sure why, but for some reason the main power was on the opposite side of the solenoid.

If your sense line has no power, it will not trigger.

 

[paclockman]

Caustic,

That's easy enough to check....I'll do that first tomorrow. Hope you are right.

 

[paclockman]

Thanks for everyone's help. After checking safety switches, the key switch, wiring connections, grounding points and who know what else, I found that my new solenoid wasn't working. I put a known good solenoid in and it fired right up.

 

[Caustic]

Good stuff