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Craftsman III (917.254421) help requested

1526 Views 13 Replies 7 Participants Last post by  VTXRider
I'm hoping someone out there has the patience to read through the explanation of my current situation and offer some guidance.

I'm an IT Manager by trade so mechanical issues are a bit outside of my realm, but I hate downtime and I'm always looking for a side project to take on. A couple of months ago my brother-in-law (auto mechanic) gave me a Craftsman III (917.254421) that had had sitting around the shop. Someone had given it to him (I believe as partial payment for some job a while back). Regardless, he asked if I wanted it, and I was in the market for a garden tractor that could do some ground engaging work so I took it in.

The overall condition (considering its age) is cosmetically very good. I count myself lucky as it has a Onan P220G inside but a little unlucky that quite a few things were wrong with it.

I've come far in the last couple of months, but I need some help to get the last mile out of the way. Before I start with what I've done up to this point, I want to say that I got the thing running about a week ago for about 5 minutes. I cut it off and started it back up a couple of times after that and it started immediately both times. While running on the last time, I hit the rear sleeve hitch attachment toggle (I had some intermittent issues with it working so I figured I would try it with the engine running) and things immediately shutdown. I'm more inclined to think that was a coincidence, but just in case, I'll mention it here. :cool:

So what I've done up to this point (in mostly chronological order):

  1. Change the oil
  2. Use a crap load of penetrating oil to unlock the engine after I realized it was seized up after my initial oil change...yes, stupid me for not checking first...
  3. Turn the engine by hand (by hand I mean with the help from a large set of pliers) with the spark plugs out and distribute the penetrating oil
  4. Replace solenoid after testing it with a multimeter as I got nothing when turning the key
  5. Clean connectors for ignition switch (among others) as the switch was intermittently working
  6. Turn over the engine a little with the spark plugs out to further distribute the penetrating oil
  7. Change the oil again to rid the engine of the penetrating oil
  8. Took the gas tank off and cleaned it as best I could inside. Also replaced the fitting at the bottom of the tank (it was badly corroded) and replace the fuel line to the filter
  9. Replaced fuel pump after I broke a brittle plastic connector when replacing said fuel line
  10. Engine seemed to 'lock-up' at times when trying to turn over still so I got brave and did a valve adjustment job per the specs in the manual for the P220G and after watching countless videos on the process

This brings us (mostly) up-to-date but I need to add a couple of important items here at the pause. At this point I was getting annoyed that I couldn't get the engine to run despite (my) best efforts so I decided to try a battery with a higher CA rating as I had read that this engine is a hard start. I purchased the largest one I could find on my venture out which happened to be a 375 CA rated Interstate battery. Brought it home, plugged everything up, made sure it had fresh gas, etc and it started (mostly) right up! Lots of blue smoke, then black and then it evened out like it had been running all along!

That leaves me to where I left it after saying it started and ran for ~5 minutes and started up a couple of times after that. I could never get the engine to start after those initial runs so I got out my multimeter and tested the ignition coil out of curiosity. The resistance on the secondaries were not reading at all. I took it to work (I work at a auto parts manufacturer and we have lots of techs/engineers with tools I don't have at home) and had one of our guys test it for me. Only one side was giving a spark so I figured that was maybe why I could get it to start, but it was just out of sheer luck that I did.

I just got a new replacement (Onan branded) ignition coil and put it in this evening. I just knew the thing would start right up but it didn't. I didn't spend much time trying as it was getting late (and dark) here, but I really expected a different outcome.

Coincidentally (or not), what else could be wrong here? What am I missing? I know this engine runs (it ran so well that day after all it had been through) so it has upped my determination.

I really appreciate anyone's assistance with this. This thing has consumed me for the last couple of months and I can't give up now. I even have a couple of tires on the way for the front to replace the cracking ones that are currently on it. :praying:
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Compression, fuel and ignition.
If you are sure you have ignition and I'm hoping you did test the new coil for a good solid spark, maybe giving it a small shot of starting fluid to see if it will fire. maybe it's fuel ??
You should also find and post the engine numbers. It's likely the original engine but it would be nice to be sure exactly what it is you have there. I know I can find what is supposed to be there by the riders model number but it's nice to be sure.

Since you mentioned the fuel valve was corroded there might be a chance some of that got into the carb and it needs a cleaning. Just throwing that out there.
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If that model Onan has points and a condenser I'd try replacing the condenser and clean the contacts on the points,or replace them if they look bad...

The coil may well have been bad,but the points & condenser have to be good for a coil to make good spark--it is not uncommon for an old condenser to work briefly then crap out...if it has solid state ignition .I'm not much help there,those sometimes work perfect when they feel like it too,usually when cold,and once they warm up they might stop working..

It might be a long shot,but perhaps some rust,carbon,or other crud was what made it "lock up" while cranking and jammed the pistons up enough to "seize" it up,and your need to use penetrant and pliers to get it to turn over again...maybe some of that stuff has fouled the spark plugs or bridges the gap on them...but I'd think at least one cylinder would still fire and make it want to start..
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Here's a copy of the schematic.

Attachments

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Don't know if any of this helps either, but i think you have to have the clutch depressed to start, and there is a kill switch under the seat, plus you also mentioned the starter switch and I think you have to have the PTO turned off. 4 possible issues to contemplate. Also, just as an FYI, the Deere 318 used the same engine. My key switch went bad on my Craftsman II with the Onan and I replaced with a Deere Switch. Works fine. I also sometimes buy engine filters there. Sometimes they're cheaper there than anyplace else. Go figure.
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The ignition condenser can be bad if the tractor has been sitting around for a long time.
That is one part that can deteriorate without being used.

You have that PTO/relay/seat switch combination, that could be intermittent.
I'd suggest (temporarily) jumping 12V directly to the + terminal of the coil to see if that makes a difference.
Doing so would bypass the PTO/relay/seat switch combo.
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Just now getting to reply here, will do everyone at once. :cool:

The engine part # is 739-10676B.

I took the multimeter out after dinner this evening and checked the new coil. All is well with resistance so in a perfect world, it would produce a spark.

No points on this engine so we can rule that out.

Gunk in the carb or fuel lines could certainly be an issue. It did my best to clean the tank and replaced most of the fuel line, but it isn't perfect. I can see jets of gas coming out of the carb if I watch it while starting. I have no idea how much it is supposed to jet as I have no reference (again, this is my first engine project for the most part). All I know is that at least some gas is making it into the carb. I will say that when trying to start, the gas smell is pretty immense. It smells like the engine is being flooded, even after just the first attempt. Could be a leak somewhere in the line I suppose, but I see no obvious evidence.

I thought about spraying a little gas into the carb and trying to start it, but since the gas smell is so strong, I'm not sure that would help.

Spark plugs also smell of gas and I replaced them during this project...which means gas is making it where it needs to be.

Unfortunately I don't have a lot of tools at my disposal (compression tester, fuel pressure tester, spark tester, etc). I'm not opposed to picking up a few diagnostic items, but I could quickly go overboard trying to get this solved.

The manifold gaskets for the intake/exhaust were a little cracked up, but I put them back on as is. I plan to replace those if I get the thing running, but maybe that is contributing to the issue? I feel like it wouldn't have started last week if that were the problem (even partly).

Maybe I missed it above, but how can I test the ignition condenser?

Also, I thought about the safeties on it, particularly since the engine cut off when I engaged the sleeve hitch motor, but I was under the assumption that the engine wouldn't even try to turn over unless all of the safeties passed their check? If I do not depress the brake then the engine won't even turn over. Not sure if that remains true for all of the safeties?

FWIW, the engine isn't seized anymore, hasn't been for about a month. I quickly resolved that issue and it hasn't been a problem since (other than a weak battery not being able to turn it over properly).

BTW, I also checked resistance in the spark plug lines from the ignition coil to the plugs and I think those lines (both) are fine. They are a little cracked up on the outside, but if they test fine, I figure I'm not going to worry about it yet. Maybe I should go ahead and throw a couple of new spark plugs in there for the heck of it? I did it when I first started this project, but the plugs are definitely getting carboned up. Again, I have no reference as to how they should look at this point. :cool:
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Charlotte
Three hour drive. Too far to drop by and see if I could help.

:dunno:
Update:

This afternoon I had a chance to bypass the safety circuits by jumping from the positive on the battery to the positive on the coil. Started right up! Since the rear motor toggle is what killed the engine the first day I had it running, that's where I'm starting. Going to clean all of the connections for the switches. I know the ignition switch is pretty bad, but I was able to clean it up a month ago well enough that I don't think it has an issue (everything tested okay with the multimeter in all positions).

I really appreciate everyone's help with this! I would never have thought to jump to the coil from the battery, but those very words were in the manual for the Onan so I should have paid closer attention to the manual I suppose.

:thanku:
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Update:

This afternoon I had a chance to bypass the safety circuits by jumping from the positive on the battery to the positive on the coil. Started right up! Since the rear motor toggle is what killed the engine the first day I had it running, that's where I'm starting. Going to clean all of the connections for the switches. I know the ignition switch is pretty bad, but I was able to clean it up a month ago well enough that I don't think it has an issue (everything tested okay with the multimeter in all positions).

I really appreciate everyone's help with this! I would never have thought to jump to the coil from the battery, but those very words were in the manual for the Onan so I should have paid closer attention to the manual I suppose.

:thanku:
Or post#7?
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Or post#7?
Sorry, thought I had given you credit but I did not. After reading your post I did find it in the manual so I tried it...thank you very much!

I ended up finding the short today. Cleared right up after I cleaned the connections. I am getting a new ignition switch though as the one I have is somewhat intermittent.

Thanks again everyone!
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Ignition switches are a very common problem, being exposed to the weather if left outside. It has been an issue lately on the forum of owners buying the wrong key switch for replacement. Just a friendly reminder to buy the part number listed for you machine.
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