[dmorrill22]

Hi,

I've wondered about a couple things for a while now, hope I can get answers.

Does anyone know what the slots in the front of the frame are?
I've seen some bumpers bolted in to them on a couple of case 190/195's.

Why did Colt make an optional front pto for this tractor? To my knowledge (which is limited), Colt never made any front attachments that would use this optional pto.

Finally, are the two sets of holes right behind the front axle original, because I haven't seen these on the other 2712's I've seen pictures of.
Here's a pic that shows what I mean:

Thanks for the help,
Doug

P.S. - I don't remember how my choke cable was bolted on to the tractor, does anyone have a pic detailing this? :thanku:

 

[kungdrew]

Hi,


Why did Colt make an optional front pto for this tractor? To my knowledge (which is limited), Colt never made any front attachments that would use this optional pto.

:

I see a mower deck in one of your pictures. There is your answer.

 

[castoff]

From late 1964 on, Colt Manufacturing was owned by Case and essentially ceased to exist. Case was in charge. Make no mistake about that. This was all about putting a line of garden tractors into the Case dealerships that had Case colors and logos on them. Those two things that are the main difference between Colt and Case tractors. The line of implements for a Case were also available for the Colt.

The PTO you speak of was for the snow blower. The slots in the frame were used to mount the snowblower. Maybe it's just my eyes but I don't see the two sets of holes in the frame right behind the front axle that you refer to. The illustrations in the parts manuals are something that I have found to be very accurate and no holes are depicted there. Owners do weird things with tractors so if you do have holes that are not on other tractors of the same model, then my guess is that someone put them there after the tractor left the factory.

 

[RestMyCase]

I see a mower deck in one of your pictures. There is your answer.

So the mower deck in the photo mounts on the front of the tractor ?

:fing20:

 

[dmorrill22]

I thought it might have been for a snowblower, but have never seen one for a 190/195. It certainly makes sense.

kungdrew,
The mower deck I have in the pictures is not the original for the tractor. castoff would know more about what tractor it originally came from. My grandfather says it was for a case 155. I tried test fitting it to the tractor, and it will work with a minor modification to the back hanger. I have the original mower deck mule drive for this tractor, and it is entirely different.

This is what the original mower deck and mule drive looks like:

castoff, the holes are hard to see in the picture. There are 2 holes in the frame on each side, and I have seen pictures of the case 190/195 tractors as well as the smaller models with these holes as well.

In this picture, you can see the holes I am talking about.

 

[kungdrew]

So the mower deck in the photo mounts on the front of the tractor ?

:fing20:

Are you serious?

He asked what would the front PTO provide power for, we all know that belt driven decks on these tractors are ran from the front PTO.

Is there some other kind of front PTO that I am not aware of?

Help me out, I need to know these things.


*EDIT*

Okay, now I recall reading about early snowcasters that were shaft driven, that would make sense but what does this PTO look like and where is the parts list? I am interested because I have a 195 in the family that may someday be mine.
*EDIT EDIT*

I assume we are not talking about the L-29, I knew about those already, but wasn't aware if something similar would have been available for Colt tractors.

 

[Caseman2]

My two 195's have the holes that are used for hanging the deck - actually the mule drive, but my 190 does not, this is curious why your Colt would have them, are they square or round?

 

[dmorrill22]

The holes are round, looks like they too were made for this purpose. The front pto I am talking about is not the one mounted to the engine, it is an extension that went in the axle pivot and had a pulley coming out of the front of the axle. This is why these tractors have a hole in the axle pivot. The front pto "extension" is belt driven off the pto from the engine. It is in the manual for the colt 2712 tractor on the ingersoll website.

 

[castoff]

Are you serious?

He asked what would the front PTO provide power for, we all know that belt driven decks on these tractors are ran from the front PTO.

Is there some other kind of front PTO that I am not aware of?

Help me out, I need to know these things.


*EDIT*

Okay, now I recall reading about early snowcasters that were shaft driven, that would make sense but what does this PTO look like and where is the parts list? I am interested because I have a 195 in the family that may someday be mine.
*EDIT EDIT*

I assume we are not talking about the L-29, I knew about those already, but wasn't aware if something similar would have been available for Colt tractors.

Drew,
I sure hope that RMC doesn't get upset with me for answering your questions.


Some of the old 100 series tractors had an optional PTO shaft that was mounted to the frame cross member. There was an optional front-axle pivot-pin that was hollow instead of solid. The shaft passed through this pin. The regular PTO clutch drove the pulley on the shaft of this PTO and voila.....you had a PTO shaft sticking out the front of the tractor that could feed power to the gearbox of the snowblower.

The L-29 is the 540 RPM PTO unit that is exclusive to the 200 and 400 series tractors with Snap Fast. However, Case did offer a 540 PTO for the older 100 models but it mounted on the left side of the frame and was belt driven off the PTO clutch pulley.

 

[RestMyCase]

Nobody will be upset when a Father tries to educate his Son

:thThumbsU

 

[castoff]

The holes are round, looks like they too were made for this purpose. The front pto I am talking about is not the one mounted to the engine, it is an extension that went in the axle pivot and had a pulley coming out of the front of the axle. This is why these tractors have a hole in the axle pivot. The front pto "extension" is belt driven off the pto from the engine. It is in the manual for the colt 2712 tractor on the ingersoll website.

One thing that I noticed about the Colt parts manual is this. There is no depiction of the bracket that receives the mule on the deck. That would explain why the holes don't show up in the frame depiction in the manual. You have the correct deck and mule. The question now is "What does that mule clip into under the tractor?" If that is gone, then that's your answer for the mystery holes.

 

[castoff]

Nobody will be upset when a Father tries to educate his Son

:thThumbsU

You presume waaaaaaaaay too much.

 

[wurkenman]

Nobody will be upset when a Father tries to educate his Son

:thThumbsU

I've seen people on here get into a big pee pee match over something as simple as the color and temperature of milk. :crybaby:

 

[kungdrew]

Drew,
I sure hope that RMC doesn't get upset with me for answering your questions.

Thanks Dad.... Doesn't really matter who I learn from, just what it is that I am learning.

I am sure the same goes for the OP.

 

[dmorrill22]

Doesn't really matter who I learn from, just what it is that I am learning.

:ditto::ditto:

 

[RestMyCase]

Maybe the 2 sets of holes behind the front axle were used to mount the F-18 counter weight brackets offered on the first production 220/442 frames. These frames had the holes and your 2712 did not but could have been drilled later. Just a thought.

:trink40:

 

[Caseman2]

The holes are round, looks like they too were made for this purpose. The front pto I am talking about is not the one mounted to the engine, it is an extension that went in the axle pivot and had a pulley coming out of the front of the axle. This is why these tractors have a hole in the axle pivot. The front pto "extension" is belt driven off the pto from the engine. It is in the manual for the colt 2712 tractor on the ingersoll website.

If the holes are round then I would think that someone drilled them as Castoff mentioned earlier.

 

[castoff]

Rarely do RMC and I agree on anything but in this instance he could be right and wrong at the same time.

While it is true that someone might have retrofitted the counterweight he mentioned to the frame, it is far more likely that a pair of D series brackets that are needed for the mounting of the snow blower were installed on this tractor. That might have happened at the dealership. The D brackets are simply an earlier version of the F brackets mentioned by RMC and those F brackets were used for the counterweight and the snow blower on the early 200/400 models.

While I have nothing in my stack of information next to my toy tractor to substantiate this, I'd say that the 155/195 models all used the E-series brackets.

 

[Nutcase446]

I think that if you go to the F-84 snowblower parts book you will see the mount bracket that hooks to the 2 holes behind the axle. The pulley in this set up has a female hex that the blower shaft slides into when installing. I've got one in my backyard but I still haven't figured how to post pictures.

 

[castoff]

I think that if you go to the F-84 snowblower parts book you will see the mount bracket that hooks to the 2 holes behind the axle. The pulley in this set up has a female hex that the blower shaft slides into when installing. I've got one in my backyard but I still haven't figured how to post pictures.

Gregg,
I think that you are referring to catalog 1128. That blower is actually for the early 220, 222, 442 and 444. It is quite conceivable that a dealer retrofitted one of these to the Colt under discussion. Since we are really getting into this hole mystery, I pulled out catalog 988 that covers the Haban single-stage snow thrower which was actually correct for 120, 130, 180, 190 and all the 65 and 66 Colts.

While it was a gear driven unit, the gearbox was belt driven, not shaft driven and I see no sign of any mounting brackets similar to the F-series brackets. Doug needs to look at his exterior PTO pulley and see if it has the female hex hole in it. If it does, then I would agree that a F-series blower found its way onto this Colt. Stranger things have happened. Thanks for your input.